June 2007 Riddling Riddles – Riddle 4

June 22, 2007

The same ol’ stuffs again and again. Hope you enjoy from the previous questions.

The theme is still food court. For any Q&A correspondence and question answering, pls email to riddleQA@gmail.com

For this week’s question we thought we’d try something different.

We found a rather interesting question set by a newbie and we’d like to share it as this week’s riddle. We hope that it will trigger another round of active discussion amongst the regular as well as newbies.

As usual, appreciate your cooperation in not hinting or giving away easy clues which might spoil the enjoyment of solving the question for other newbies.

So please enjoy and happy solving/commenting.

4. Normal Riddle – Love the cocktail served regularly in Bush residence.  (5 letters or below)


Answer: TEH O

Love the = O THE (anagram) = TEH O
in Bush Residence = in WHI TEHO USE (container)

This is a double definition clue.



  1. Whoa… a new page!

    ce5nt, you got me wrong. I am familiar with the Double Jeopardy — where the setter supplies the answer, and hunters are required to come up with the question. 2R&1I will tell you that I myself gave a DJ in my last hunt. But the one I gave was such a ‘school-boy’ standard. I gave ‘PIPES’, and hunters were required to spot ‘PEPSI TWIST’ on the signage.

    The funny thing was that after that hunt, I received an SMS from a hunter who criticised that question. He said it was a bad idea and not a valid hunt question. I had no one to defend me, so I replied: “Thx for comment; will keep in mind.” Oh how I wish that hunter is reading all this now!

    But what I see in claire’s clue is not exactly the same. Yes, it is also the DJ, but with a different twist. The solution is brought to another level. It is in that sense that it is truly something which I have never seen before. And your explanation just opened up a whole new dimension to me. It was that new dimension that caused my excitement. It was that new dimension that I am thankful to both you and claire!

    And claire, I guess that means I won’t be doing no shaving this time round!

    Well, I have slept it over. And this morning when I woke up, my excitement has ebbed. I realised that it will probably be a very long time from now before I can introduce such an idea to our local hunt here in KK. If anything, such an idea MUST be introduced by a professional CoC like TOS. If it’s someone like me who introduced it, that question would be shot down immediately! That’s the price that new CoCs have to bear. Nonetheless, I’m still very happy to have learned this new idea, if only for my own knowledge. Thanks again, my friend.

  2. ckoh:

    no wonder I was surprised you were surprised! There are of course several flavours/variations of DJs – and claire’s is one of them. I must have unwittingly introduced to you another!

  3. Calling out 2R&1I:

    2 questions I’d like to ask you. The first already asked, but haven’t been answered. The second I’ve been meaning to ask, but never got the chance.

    1) ANNE = ‘N’?:

    In a past hunt Qs that I got hold of, I found this interesting clue:

    Q) Golfer does this when Anne is not around.
    A) Teens

    I can’t remember if that’s the clue, word for word. I worked my way backwards and figured out that what the golfer does is ‘TEES’. Therefore, that ANNE must be referring to that letter ‘N’. It is interesting to me that in this case, ANNE = N without the need for a ‘sounds like’ clue. Is that universally acceptable in West Malaysia hunts? It is something that I’m thinking of introducing into my future questions here in KK, but I want to make sure first.


    I don’t know, really. What do you think? Does it make sense? Your favourite Q goes like this:

    Q) Her point taken. It makes sense now, doesn’t it?
    A) Derina Fashion House.

    Of course SENSE = DERIA, and POINT = N. So taking away that N from DERINA leaves us DERIA, which is SENSE. OK, good.

    But are you happy with that word ‘now’ in the clue? From that answer DERINA, her point hasn’t been taken yet. Therefore, right NOW it doesn’t make SENSE (yet). The situation would have been different had the clue been, say:

    IF her point is taken, it would make sense.

    Although of course the clue would then lose its element of deception.

    Then it would perfectly fit the answer DERINA because we are essentially telling the solver that only AFTER we take away the N would that answer becomes SENSE, but right now it does not equal SENSE. It is in this sense that I view this particular clue imperfect. It is good still, but perfect, no. What do you think?

  4. Yes, ce5nt, I didn’t think of the possibility of seting the question that way. Yet another proof that I still have so much more to learn. It was new to me. I owe you one, big time!

  5. Good morning everyone! Wow…looks like I missed out quite a bit last night (and early this morning!). Ok, let me have a look through properly and I’ll reply soon. Hehe…feeling so shy now…

  6. pink:

    I should have posted this eons ago. You don’t deserve to be in doubt a second longer.
    My feelings hurt? No- absolutely not. Not even a dent. Didnt even know it. And that’s official. I am sure 2R1I will tell you the same.

    I have too thick a coat of salt to even notice it.
    (A hug however will melt it all down!)

    I must say you have a strong and very much welcomed parental instint in you. I appreciate it, honestly.

    I am sure if anyone was so much as to touch even a follicle of pink, you will be the first to FAX over and in the style of BatMan, veil your protective steely armour over pink – as you have demonstrated to us here.

    (That’s all!)

  7. Sorry for the long silence last night. Reading all your comments made me blush bashfully…now my cheeks have a nice splash of rosy pink.

    THE RIDDLE: A well suited position for Calvin Klein is the result.
    THE ANSWER: Blur-blur, ce5nt and 2R&1I (among other ‘silent’ observers) got the answer: chicken chop.
    ce5nt’s explanation was spot-on! What went on in my mind when I crafted this riddle? A position = niche, well suited = designer clothes by CK. Another thing I want to share is that if you read the first 4 words together, “A well suited position” also means “niche”!
    As for the rest of the explanation, ce5nt already did a wonderful job at it.

    I quote ce5nt “A double jeopardy. CHOP up CHICKEN into CK NICHE”.

    Ckoh, I guess I’m safe…for now! Oh darn, and I wanted to change my hair style, shave my long tresses for some Mohawk style maybe. Haha… And do share, what is it that you learnt from ce5nt?

    Pink, do try out my riddle when you can. And I welcome any comments or criticisms from you.

    2R&1I, I’m still waiting for you…(imagination running wildly)

  8. pink, I did admit that my criticisms were harsh on you. I did apologize. I did commit to refrain from commenting on your future Qs. Everyone here can go back to read what I wrote. There is only so much I can do. The only thing more I can say is, if you invite comments and criticisms from others, then brace up for both the positive and negative ones.

    ce5nt, thanks for your faith in me, my friend. I’m not too sure about having a protective armour to protect others though. I am just too old for all this aggressive stuff. I’m just essentially a thinker and am therefore more active in that way. Physical? No.

  9. claire,

    I wouldn’t dare to criticise this particular clue of yours. Not because of the fear of getting shaved by you in return! But as ce5nt would tell you, I’m really impressed with your clue, honest! I said before, I can still spot a good idea when I see one.

    I am keen on any types of puzzles. And I derive so much pleasure when I see a beautiful one. From ce5nt’s explanation, it has opened up a new dimension to me on how to set interesting questions in this new direction! I am excited; I am happy. I run I leap! Oh I feel like I want to kiss you and ce5nt…. Well, maybe not ce5nt.

  10. ckoh:

    EH(?), BEE, SEE, DEE, (E?),(F?),GEE, (H?), EYE, JAY, KAY, AL (EL), (M?), ANNE, OH(?), PEE, CUE(?), AR(?), ASS, TEE, YOU, WE(WEE), (W?), AXE, WHY … anyone care to complete the song? I don’t know my ABC’s that well.

    These have been “universally” accepted “pronunciations” – no prompters/pointers required. Like many words in the English Language (e.g. Xerox, fax) – by de facto. 2R1L is on vacation – he will have more to share about it.

    WON(?), TOO, TREE, FOR, (5?), (6?), (7), ATE, (9), (10)? … can’t count well too!

  11. *&^%#@!#%&$%!

    ce5nt, I was hoping to just get a confirmation, but very little elaboration on it… hehehehe.

    When I said I want to introduce it to our local hunts here, I was thinking along the line of all those other pronunciations as well. But I refrained from actually mentioning it, because I am aware that some of my fellow Sabahans are also watching all this!

    I can immediately think of so many stuff with this play on words, for example:

    Q) Reason for fear of seven?
    A) 789

    Thanks for confirming, ce5nt.

    By the way, since the other hunt is now postponed, I suppose everyone is gonna have a ball at the STFOGA, huh?

  12. ckoh: That was the generous side of me – not the brighter side though! I am sure you will still find ways to “hide” or “deceive” your fellow padawans!

    We are expecting every pack of wolves to be there. A Ball? Very much up to the COC to get it rolling.

  13. Claire,

    Hope you are fine and not feeling feverish (more from blushing than H5N1). Bravo on your Q. Care to set another one? At least until you get a shave………

  14. I meant to take a day off folks. Couldn’t stay away too long I guess, with the questions flooding in. Hope my response in the sequence they appeared in will make peace with everyone.

    pink, I share the same sentiment as ce5nt (think I’d like ce5nt as a teammate, his/her wit will help light up a tense situation during a hunt). Hurt, no, definitely not. Remember my 2 main objectives of participating in this blog that I posted not too long ago?

    ckoh, common sounds like names need no introduction (keywords). Other examples are Kay, Jay, Tea, Bee etc.

    ckoh (again), my pet question should be read in the sequence it is constructed.
    Her point taken —-> it makes sense now (ie. after removing point, then sense is formed). And her is a subtle definition clue to clue the readers towards a female name. I like this question because of its simplicity, deception and completeness (with both cryptic and definition clues in place). It is not a trend for CoCs to include definition clues, I think for fear of their clue being exposed. But I know at least one CoC, who is crafting it (definition clue)well enough to make it deceptive. I try very hard to benchmark this question when setting questions for my clients. Off course the level of difficulty would be adjusted depending on the field.

    and finally claire, I didn’t like the use of the “for” in your sentence construction. All other words used are satisfactory. “For” in a lateral way is read as “to form” (ie. anagram indicator). While using it in a literal sense (as what you have intended) means to “belong to”. So rightfully, niche for CK should equate to CK’s niche and not CK niche which is wrong grammar.


  15. ce5nt, I hope by the time I do the next hunt, I would already be a Jedi Master. With all your help on here, I am confident it is achievable! I just hope that when and if I have acquired all the knowledge and power, I will not be seduced to the dark side…

    Every pack of wolves, huh? Well, there’s gonna be one losing its way all the way from the east! Watch out, that wolf has just learned about double jeopardy! If only someone would have any information on the COC…

    May the force be with you!…

  16. ckoh, I’ll be joining the Stfoga Hunt too…so I’ll see you there! Would love to see you run and leap and… *wink*. See, you still have lots of spirit which motivates the physical muscles to move as well!

    I’m just wondering about what ce5nt said “Very much up to the COC to get it rolling.”. But WHO is the CoC? Does anyone know? Heck, I don’t even know where the flag-off venue is! Or briefing date (if any), or registration time, etc.

  17. 2R1I: it will be an honour to be hunting side by side with you! You are very dedicated to this game/sport (what should it be – by the way?) – a working holiday for you!

  18. ckoh:

    I completely agree with you that you are 200% Jedi Material. The real ones are the amongst the 90% – holding watching briefs over these preceedings. Unlike me, a complete visible. I am merely their spokesperson, if I may honour myself with this role! Agree, 2R1I?

  19. ce5nt,

    200% Jedi Material, huh? That’s even better than Lord Vader!

    Yes, I’m convinced that there are Masters amongst those 90%. Perhaps the ‘real’ Jedi Masters would care to come out into the open (not necessarily from their shells only) and share some of their brilliant Qs. I’m hungry for more lessons.

    Some more Qs claire? Dr Clue?

  20. ckoh: i would reserve the “Lord Vader” title for the roque COCs. So, do not associate yourself with the “dark side”!

  21. ce5nt:

    I shall be guided by you, Master.


    It suddenly occurred to me to check out the riddle ranking. And to my surprise, I found my ‘ckoh’ in second place. How did that happen? I didn’t know ROTI BAKAR was worth that much!… hehehehe.

  22. Since ckoh will be in town next weekend for STFOGA, it would be nice if someone could organize a gathering of sorts (dinner maybe). That way we can put faces to names, when we chat. Ha ha, feel free to shoot this idea down.

  23. Yeah, great idea 2R&1I…so that ckoh can put a face to my name every time he wants to shave me! Haha… the count me in.

  24. Yeah sure. You’re buying, 2R&1I? That’s a great idea! Should someone quickly go make name tags? Then maybe I can have a more serious discussion with claire about double jeopardy; and with ce5nt on star wars. I’m just dying to know the mysterious COC!

  25. Oh and we can all have a well-suited position for Calvin Klein; and no bad consequence for riddle raiders pioneer on the menu!

  26. Btw, claire, you won’t want me to shave you, as I am sufferring from early symptoms of Parkinson’s. And strangely enough, such symptoms would be enhanced if I’m shaving the opposite sex.

  27. interesting answer for claire’s q. Well done ce5nt. Just a comment:
    I agree with 2R&1I for the usage of For in ur Q. maybe another “more well suited” word could be used. Nevertheless, a good Q.
    2R&1I, though you have used your Q) Her point taken. It makes sense now,doesn’t it? as your explanation for simplicity and deception, I do not truly agree with the usage of Her, 1st) her cannot be concluded as a name though u mentioned u try to guide the solvers to a female and 2ndly) Derina is not really a common female name. However, i do agree with the simplicity part.

    Well, since many have pit their skills by putting up a Q for solving, I’ll do my bit here too.

    Q) Is the French resort consumed by a different point?
    (still on the Foodcourt theme & 9 words)
    Have fun!!

  28. Ad: 9 words – that food must take hours to prepare!

  29. ad: let me guess : nasi lemak (IS LE + MAKNA)?
    anagram pointers : resort and different
    fodder : is and “le” – “the” in French; point in BM: makna

    My BM is too weak to confirm if makna makes the point.

  30. ce5nt! I almost threw up my food from laughing too much after reading your comment…you’re terrible. Hehe…

  31. Ad, is that the answer? Surely POINT can’t be MAKNA? Unless you arrive at that interpretation by an indirect means?

  32. Ad, kindly explain further. Interesting to hear why “her” cannot clue to a person’s name? By the way it is commonly used in cryptic crosswords, and I can’t take any credit for this. Her point = point that belongs to Derina.

    And finally, Derina definitely does not sound like a man’s name! And I know it is not common, so that is why I provided the answer rather than wait for a response from the readers.

  33. ckoh, what say we go Orange, if this gathering materialises.

    To add a twist, maybe someone like ce5nt should use his/her creative juices to make the gathering place cryptic. Break & enter. Food court perhaps (ha ha)?

  34. Not such a bad idea, 2R&1I. Umm… a cryptic place? Well, not too sure about that. I’m already bad enough with my way around the city. Don’t be surprised if I don’t turn up!…. hehehehe

  35. 2R&1I, I do agree with you regarding the usage of “for” in my riddle, and I also noticed the grammar error of CK niche while crafting the riddle. However after dwelling on it for some time (and partly day-dreaming a bit), I thought I might as well post my riddle to test the water. Hehe…
    Thanks for pointing that out! Thanks to Ad too.

  36. Hey ce5nt, come to think of it, you have a good solution there! Now that I come to think of it, POINT might mean MAKNA after all…. as in “what’s your point?”…. i.e. “apa maksud/makna awak?”

  37. ad: I stand corrected. There really are 9 words in your Q. So, how many, say “lettuce” would there be in your intended food/drink?

  38. By the way, 2R&1I, talking about grammar, I notice that sometimes, even in cryptic puzzles, grammatical requirements are not observed. For example:

    Women supporter = Bra
    (Women’s supporter?)

    Place for which one is late? = Cemetery
    (… one who is A late?)

    And sometimes punctuations, eg. full stops, commas etc are also totally ignored. Do you agree? For a while, I debated “THE FULL CONTENT…” vs “THE FULL’S CONTENT…” with my wife. The latter should be the proper one, right?

  39. My congratulations to you once again ce5nt. I knew when this Q was put up, you will find the Q pretty straight forward since this is the standard form of Q setting over here (KL). Only thing was, I did hope u didnt post your answer so quick as it dampens the others from trying.

    Looks like i’ve got to tune it more next time round since you are around. (hehehe)

    Anyway, you got the explanation spot on. And yes, POINT does indeed mean Makna / meaning.

    Anyway, my intention of putting up this question was to say show an example of a question that is solvable without knowing the signboard and not working backwards or at least gives enough hints to enable one to solve.

    2R&1I, as for the why Her does not concludes as a name, is becoz for a female name, She is normally used to define the gender.

    cheers and will start to crack on a tougher Q cause ce5nt is here. ahem ahem….

  40. 2R&1I, I had more or less the same kind of confusion as Ad has on your ‘HER’. Indeed I was thinking along that same path in the beginning.

    Her relates to the gender of the person we’re referring to; rather than referring to a proper noun, i.e. DERINA. But of course HER fits that proper noun too in this case, since I must agree with you that DERINA does sound very much like a female’s name than otherwise! In the end, I decided to accept your side of the explanation also, because you said ‘a subtle clue’ pointing to DERINA.

  41. Ad, indeed your clue is solvable without ‘knowing the answer first’. I like how it could be deciphered in a logical manner. I think it would have taken me longer, because I would’ve considered other possibilities first before MAKNA. In fact, when ce5nt gave MAKNA, my immediate reaction was POINT does not equal MAKNA. But after pondering on it, I saw it was possible after all. So that would have been the stumbling block in my case.

    In terms of construction though, I think the sentence could use a bit of improvement maybe. It sounds a lot like my own ‘improvement’ over the first riddle. In other words, the clue is OK, but the sentence hardly makes any sense.

    Sorry Ad, and to everyone else too, about posting the guess so early. I wasn’t confident of it – hoping that someone will latch on and eventually give the correct answer (like how it really happens in the car). If claire was in my car – she would have convinced me!

    Don’t worry about me. I am always the one that rarely come out with the answers in my team!
    My contributions are thus trade secrets for now.
    So this blog is good practice for me too!

    I will be more discreet in future blogs! Smooth q by the way (at least to me). But 2R1I will critique it. Me? Hopeless in that area. I think there is more learning in the critique than the answer per se.

    do you feel like there is now lesser and lesser targets for you? Well, there is such a thing called “a double” in treasure hunting – two consecutive questions on the same signboard!

    Maybe ckloh, you want to come out with a treasure-style riddle instead … and just watch this blog erupt!

  43. thanks ce5nt for the compliment. and had the same idea on T Question. Only problem is, must make sure that the item can be found in both east and west m’sia.

    ckoh: as u will notice, most TH Q dont make sense anyway but rather whether the construction of the Q has a smooth reading or otherwise and not to make it coagulated.

  44. Yes, Ad, I totally agree to that. You will remember when discussing the first riddle, I actually brought up this particular issue.

    If we are to choose between a good smooth clue construction vs a good meaningful sentence, which one should prevail. And I went on to say most would prefer the good smooth clue construction. Of course if we can have both, that’s even better! But I have more priority on the clue construction.

  45. claire:

    I was somewhat confused about what was so ‘terrible’ about ce5nt’s comment that has resulted in your almost throwing up your food. The worst case scenario was that POINT doesn’t equal MAKNA — no reason to throw up your food. And nothing so terrible either.

    Then I checked the posts again. It just didn’t add up. Then an idea struck me. Could it be that you were reading my comment of shaving with the symptoms of Parkinson’s, but then mistakenly thought that it was a comment by ce5nt? THAT would have been something terrible to throw up food for!

    Looking at the situation, I’m inclined to think that it was the Parkinson’s that almost made you throw up your food.

    As for MAKNA, I am feeling quite ashamed that ce5nt saw it first. I even considered ruling it out. Had someone else suggested that word MAKNA, I might have already ruled it out immediately!

  46. ckloh :
    How about you check if your target product or item can be found on the internet. If you can, (can be anywhere in the world) – then it can be accepted as a valid treasure! You can still give it a theme!

  47. shucks!! ckoh: if not for ce5nt, u will still be stuck with it…:) as u would not have considered MAKNA. How nice then (grin).

  48. Yes, Ad, I think it would have taken a while before I make a full circle back to MAKNA. But the main reason I like your question is because it is meant to be solvable, if you know what I mean. I would still have liked it even if in the end I couldn’t get the answer! Good work, Ad.

  49. ce5nt, I would love to be in your car one day…

    My dear ckoh…in my post, I said “I almost threw up my food from laughing too much after reading your comment…you’re terrible”. Noticed the words “laughing too much”? So “throwing up” means laugh until throw up, not puke because of disgust, etc. I was referring to ce5nt’s post “Ad: 9 words – that food must take hours to prepare!”. Found that statement funny. Hehe… and “You’re terrible” was said with fondness, not the literal meaning.

    Ad, I wouldn’t have thought of point = makna too. Just managed to get to “isle” then ce5nt’s answer flashed in front of my eyes. Haha.

    PS: Sorry everyone for too much talk “disgusting” talk. Must have gotten the habit from Paul. Haha…

    I wonder what pink’s Q3 would be like if it was set in BM? Any takers? Come on, show us your prowness in the language. Well, at least entertain us!

  51. hey pink: where art thou? We are now at …
    WARP : 4
    Coordinates : 20 degrees N, 07 degrees East
    Dimensions : 6th
    Elevation : 22
    Instant : 17.40
    Need a beam up? Smile first …

  52. I am a proponent for cryptic questions that has a smooth flowing sentence, supported by good grammar and abides by the basic rules I posted earlier. However, sadly, CoCs that abide by these requirements are a dying breed. So we have no choice but to adapt. So to get my fix, I depend on theStar crossword column Mon to Fri. (highly recommended for newbies)

    ckoh, I have come across cryptic crosswords associating “supporter” to bra, but not “women supporter” to bra. It is grammatically wrong to say a bra supports a woman!

    As for your other question, I have come across a similar sounding question as the one you have posted:
    Place for one who is late.
    In this case, cemetery is acceptable for ‘dead is a synonym for late’.

  53. claire, claire, claire… what a whole mess about this throwing up food!… hehehehe.

    If you scroll up, you’d see that after ce5nt posted his 1:35pm answer involving POINT = MAKNA, your comment followed immediately after that at 1:41pm, saying that you “almost threw up my food from laughing too much after reading your comment…you’re terrible. Hehe…”.

    That comment of yours gave the (wrong) impression that you’re laughing at ce5nt for his POINT = MAKNA interpretation. (ce5nt, please correct me if I am wrong).

    After the answer was revealed, ce5nt, in his 3:04pm post said, “…I wasn’t confident of it – hoping that someone will latch on and eventually give the correct answer (like how it really happens in the car). If claire was in my car – she would have convinced me!” I think what he meant by that last line was that because of your wanting to throw up your food in laughter, you’d have convinced him that his POINT = MAKNA was wrong. Well, at least that’s how I understood the message behind that paragraph.

    After about half an hour, there was still no response from you, claire. So I thought I’d come in to console ce5nt that your “almost throwing up your food” was for something else — not about his POINT = MAKNA interpretation. Unfortunately, the other reason that I suggested was also wrong! I hope I didn’t cause more damage instead, ce5nt!

  54. Yes, 2R&1I, I’m inclined to agree with you on the strict requirement of grammatical accuracy — I mean for as far as my grammatical knowledge will permit.

    The full question involving that ‘bra’ was in an official hunt here in KK almost 2 years ago. The full clue was like this:

    Q) Sounds like women supporters, coming before the two footer.
    A) Brass Monkey Cafe (can’t remember full name).

    It wasn’t a very difficult question, but the question struck me as grammatically wrong. No one raised any objection to it anyway.

  55. And by the way, ce5nt, all those numbers for you exact location right now might turn out to be the winning numbers for jackpot lotto!

  56. ckoh:I think this was what happened:
    postings crossed. while claire was composing her fond laugh… my answer was already posted and she could only see it after pressing SUBMIT. but to the rest of us…it appears like claire did see it b4 posting..

    Me offended? a clear no again, not offended by anyone, or anything posted. and that’s official.

    word of advice: don’t laugh at 1st sight! technology can mess us all up. panacea: give more benefit of doubt.

    pardon any typo…on mobile pda and on the train.

  57. ckloh, o! o! be prepared to be flooded with emails.

  58. Good, this is what we hope for. More participations!!

  59. So, ckloh, are you indeed getting flooded right now?… hehehehe

  60. FYI, I am still in my company. No access to the mail. Will only know it tonight!

  61. Btw, ckloh, although many got the answer for Q3, may I suggest that you give an official explanation for the ROTI BAKAR anyway. I think there are some of us who are just learning this game and would like to learn how to arrive at the answer. And I think this would also attract more people to your blog as well.

  62. ckloh, since you’re getting so many hits, shouldn’t you try signing up for something like google-ads that pays you to get hit? Something to ponder?

  63. ckoh: Good idea! I’ll drink to that! O! To you too, 2R1I – good idea too.

  64. ce5nt,

    Nah…not in the mood for a celebration right now. Need to finish off for this Sunday’s training hunt. Then later tonight, can watch a tape. The Ring perhaps? Hey, that reminds me, I haven’t watch the sequel yet!

  65. 2R&1I & ce3nt Thanks for the reassurance. I was worried that I might have unwittingly committed the crime biting the hands that fed me! Heaven forbid!((((HUGS))) to both of you!!!

    Ce3nt: Thx for the offer to beam me up. Can I take a raincheck on that? You sounded like Juliet on the balcony …Yes, I’m smiling :))))). Lent my laptop to smoe1 in need and just got it back. Takes more than a run-down to get me down, unless perhaps it comes from someone I respect. “TOUCH PINK AND REGRET IT”: Hahaha
    you really know how to sock it, eh? TY. Pink is tougher than you think! Will be on my 5th road hunt STFOGA on 30th. Will you be there? Hope to see both my beloved mentors there. With all the lessons and hints from you and 2R&1I (which I’ve faithfully filed), I will definitely do much better than I would otherwise.

  66. seems like STFOGA is the place where the bloggers of this site will be meeting…How interesting???

  67. ce5nt: My Q3 in Malay? “Ketua Gereja meninggalkan paderi mabuk dalam kugiran rok (or batu, if u prefer)” or if you want one that will give you the answer: Tak senonoh Ani pandang Jee empat kali!(14)(Unbecoming of Ani to stare at Jee 4 times). Didn’t want to use the BBQ word, so not very accurate translation of the answer.

  68. OOOOOOPS! Revealed my identity! Forgot to change my ID before sending. Never mind, am unknown in the hunting world anyway.

  69. is ok pink aka paulette, very soon, you will be known in the hunting circle…

  70. ckloh, a little over 12 hours into this fourth riddle, and this is already the 70th post! Maybe, by the 5th riddle, you’ll have to think of starting a new page almost on a daily basis!

    And I think 2R&1I’s idea of getting paid for ‘getting hit’ is a very good one too. You should seriously consider it. If you can earn something, then why not? Then 2R&1I and ce5nt can start charging tuition fees… hehehehe. I don’t mind to belanja them ROTI BAKAR!

  71. Good morning! Ok, ok, can’t believe there are so many versions of “why claire threw up”. Haha… That only goes to show that different people (species?) see things differently. Anyway, ce5nt was right. While I was busy composing my “food laugh”, little did I know ce5nt had already posted his comment on MAKNA…until I clicked “Submit Comment”.

    Hey, so are we really going to have a get-together makan-makan after Stfoga Hunt? 2R&1I, if we set a cryptic place, I may not find it either! Anyhow, we will all meet at this place:

    Sir! It’s a type of sweet they say.

    Hehe… 😉

  72. 2R&1I, more question for you!

    What is your opinion on ‘clue indicators’ that are rightfully connected to the targeted words? Let me show you what I mean…

    Consider the word LIONHEART. You notice that that word HEART is an indicator which points the solver to the ‘IO’ in ‘LION’. I think it is commonly acceptable amongst the hunting folks. But is it also acceptable to expand this idea to other types of indicators?

    Let’s say the word CUTBACK, which has a literal meaning in itself. But can it also be taken as CUTBACK = TUC (reverse for CUT)?

    Then let’s go a little further to something not so straightforward. The notorious anagram indicators which are so wide-ranging. Almost any word that gives a hint of something that is subject to change (can, maybe), has been changed (counterfeit, sorted), in the process of changing (confusing) etc can be anagram indicators.

    Therefore, the word TROUBLE can be an anagram indicator:

    Q) When Fred’s in TROUBLE, he looks for them?
    A) Friends Cafe

    Now we have the word TROUBLESOME, which is rightfully a single word. In a recent hunt I gave to my team members, I did something like this:

    Q) Troublesome and …… mode of transportation.
    A) Modenas

    But my team members didn’t agree, because the answer was taken from the ‘SOME’ of TROUBLESOME and the word AND, i.e SOME + AND –> MODENAS. My argument is that if LIONHEART = IO, then I do not see what I can’t make use of that SOME from TROUBLESOME.

    So what’s your opinion on this, almighty one?

  73. Ad,

    I have a feeling the STFOGA will be THE hunt of this month. Most, if not all, of the grandmasters will be there!

    And yet there is still nothing on the CoC, which is quite amazing, really. He or she will become a very famous person very soon.

    Well, if it is a ‘she’ — and to take up on ce5nt’s line — I hope she knows how to get balls rolling…

    Hope to meet you there, Ad.

  74. ckoh, they’re all perfectly acceptable forms of double jeopardy.

    A very popular one would be Earthquake = heart.

    Like u said this style is new to the Easterners. Initially you’ll hear some moans and groans. But after a while these will die down once they learn the vocab.

  75. Thx Ad, hope it will not be for the wrong reasons, like being thrown out of my team’s car for giving all the wrong answers! Hope to meet you at the STFOGA too.

  76. ckoh…I sure hope it’s a good hunt. Somehow I can’t seem to get any info from the organizers, and all I asked was if there is any pre-briefing day. Just a bit worried we got fleeced! Haha…but I’m really looking forward to this hunt, especially when I get to meet 2R&1I, ce5nt, Ad, pink, blur blur(?) and of course…you.
    Hmm…come to think of it, maybe I HAVE met you guys before.

    2R&1I, thanks for the EARTHQUAKE tip. Really useful.

    pink: good to know you are well and smiling. the silence was just unusual especially after a testing episode.

    Entertaining BM version but obviously pink, you ran out of creative juice at the spur of the moment. Still, it’s good enough for me – good choice of idea – I am easy to satisfy!

    And you too, claire, I hear.

  78. ce5nt,ran out of creative juices? Who wouldn’t at that time of the morning? I dozed off, the meat got too well done and just dried up, like my poor brains.

    I’m looking forward to see Claire again at STFOGA. Great riddlist (is there such a word?) and really great gal (very pretty too)!

    This week’s Q4 is very simple with its double clue, but it’s time newbies get a shot at solving something before they start thinking that the Q’s are for masters only, the way I felt when I first waded in here. Like I said, I’m learning lots!

  79. Claire, where exactly in Sri Kandi?

  80. Pink, the Scrabble master ?

    Was wondering how anyone about to go for her 5th road hunt could set such amazing (sometimes almost unsolvable) questions !

  81. scrabble spectator: aww, that’s for revealing my identity! One mistake and…
    If you were a true spectator, you would know my scrabbling’s as good (or bad) as my “amazing” unsolvable Q’s – deplorable. Decided to cancel my trip to the Bangkok International – giving up 10-hr marathons trying to figure out VOZHDS, KIAATs and UMBELLULES. It’s on the road to adventure for me from now on!

  82. pink! Where is Srikandi? You are asking the wrong person! Hehehe…give me a compass and I probably can’t find my way around Midvalley either! Oh by the way, Midvalley is one of the most popular shopping malls in KL. Ok, not THAT bad…but close.

    I can’t wait to see you again!

  83. On reflection, my standing up for newbies for Q4 might give the idea that I set the Q. I swear I’m not the author, so please don’t put the newbie riddler on the firing squad on account of me. I do think it’s a commendable effort.

  84. Claire, ok, I’ve lost my way again. My (lack of) sense of direction is a standing joke among my visuallly-challenged friends in Brickfields who always shake their heads affectionately and say, “Stay where u are, we’ll come and fetch u.” Hope my teammates will be as accommodating.

    Gotta go bake some goodies for 2 French cuties (aged 3 & 5) I will babysitting for the day. A bientot! (not very computer savvy, how to put the accents on the french letetrs?)

  85. pink, so your weekends are normally spent with Ganesh A, Tan Jin Chor and the rest? Wow, I’m impressed … a walking dictionary – an asset to any team in a hunt.

    A scary thought just crossed my mind … what if … pink … ever decide to become a CoC … VOZHDS, KIAATs and UMBELLULES … arrrrrrggggghhhh!

  86. pink,

    I’m only a scrabble spectator – even novice tournament players appear good (relative to me, they are), so I can’t possibly agree that your scrabbling is ‘deplorable’. I certainly don’t think that your Q-setting is deplorable either, just because of a couple of ‘near-unsolvables’. In fact,(2R+I would probably disagree) I much prefer your ‘card shuffling’ to ‘Derina’s point’.

  87. pink, are those valid words? What’s the authority? Is it the OSPD? It’s not in the 3rd edition.

  88. claire : especially when I get to meet 2R&1I, ce5nt, Ad, pink, blur blur(?)

    huh? me? no….. not this one. U guys go ahead and have a great time :), not forgetting sri kandi as well.

  89. Sorry for not responding most of the queries yesterday. Friday is a busy day for me, but certainly is a busy day for this blog as well. We keep on setting record views per day on every Friday, yesterday we got 656 views in a day beating previous high set on last Friday more than 100+ views.

    Thanks for your suggestion on the google-ads sign on. This is something that we have not thought about it previously. I will leave this to Joshua to decide. I am very much just an editor on this website, let the administrator do the work. Thanks.

    I have put the workings for ROTI BAKAR, thanks for highlighting it. On your query, why you get such high ranking, it is because you support this website since day 1. You attempt for the first query, that is why you still rank highly here.

    About setting treasures riddle, the idea actually already came out last week. But we don’t think we will want another commitment to create treasure riddles every weeks and post it here. We are thinking of creating a weekly or monthly column just like the riddle one, and this is where everybody can talk about treasure riddles only. Maybe previous tricky treasure questions in past hunts, or potential new treasures in the market and etc. But we not sure, this will work.

    It is great idea for your cyber treasures riddle, but we would prefer we set a column here for treasure discussion, and few regulars in the blog can start the ball rolling by setting some treasure riddles. Or maybe, if somebody really interested to be the host for a treasure riddle, for example, you are interested, we can set a columns like “Treasures Riddle with ce5nt” or “Cyber Treasure with ce5nt”, what you need to do is just email your riddle for us every week, we will post it here on your behalf. Just a suggestion. If anybody interested, please let us know.

    Opinion is needed how Treasure Riddle should run, if we intend to set up one? But it should run by itself or involve less involvement from us, sorry, not enough manpower to set treasure riddles every week. Please comment.

  90. An attempt to help fill the void before Q5 :
    (this Q would probably be ‘unfair’ in an actual hunt but I wouldn’t dare put even a 5-cent wager on ce5nt not solving it !)

    Laroma split local fare (4,5)

  91. renroc, just checking, it’s still food/beverage, right?

  92. Yes, it’s sort of ‘crossword-style’ as well.

  93. ckloh, thanks so much for the high ranking, my friend! But those ranking is meant for the riddles, not for the amount of support one gives to this wonderful blog of yours.

    As a matter of principle, I would fight tooth and nail for something that I deserve. But on the other hand, I don’t want to take what I don’t deserve! Winning is nice, and I’d be proud to be amongst the top on your list. But please, I don’t want it this way. That place where I occupy now belongs to someone else.

    Having seen his explanation, I fully supported c35nt’s answer to Riddle 1, but if it was left to me alone, I don’t think I could have solved it — not unless I knew what NASI KANDAR was!… hehehehe.

    I’m not trying to make life difficult for you, ckloh, but if it’s not too much, could you please adjust back the ranking so that positions are a true reflection of the scores of the correct answers for riddles. Someone else deserves the glory of that higher ranking! Let’s be fair to everyone.

  94. ckoh, I think you get me wrong. You are awarded the points for nasi kandar because you agree the answers before the answers is disclosed. Both ce5nt and ckoh did not post on the earlier mail, because some design problem prohibit them on seing the mail address. This is technical fault from us, and since both agree the answer is nasi kandar before 7pm, we decided to reward both.

    If you insists you don’t deserve the points, I will take it out as you wish.



  95. Thanks you so much, ckloh. I appreciate it so much! Oh by the way, make sure you won’t mistakenly move ce5nt’s position!… hehehehe. I say this because in you reply above, you’re addressing it to ce5nt! Thanks again for your patience with me.

  96. 2R&1I, LOL me spend weekends with Ganesh and Jin Chor? I wish! For one thing, I’m in Penang. For another, Ganesh will win the World Championship in Mumbai later this year so is way beyond my league. I have beaten him, but that’s history never to be repeated. I do beat Jin Chor once in a while, but he is the better player. A walking dictionary? Again, I wish. A coc? If I were one, 2R&1I, it will be words like ZEMSTIVO, SOUVLAKI, INFERIAE, ZOEAE, UNGUENTA, ZYGAENOID, so be warned! These words were played by some teenagers in Bangkok who didn’t speak a word of English. In a field of about 100 contenders from over 50 countries, the Thais always have at least 1 or 2 in the top 3 in International Tourneys.

    Yes, ckoh, they all have meanings and can be found in the Chambers and Collins dictionaries (the unabridged ones).

    My daughter, who won her first scrabble tourney at 5 and was disqualified because it was meant for 8 – 12 year-olds, gave up after a few years of trying to catch up with weird words. I plodded on with my ‘normal words’ but decided enuf was enuf when I saw the new Collins word list with FAAN, NABK and CAAED – I cancelled my flight to Bangkok.

    ScrabSpectator: Thanks for your kind words but how can you compare my ‘card shuffling’ to ‘Derina’s? One is a fumbling amateur effort while the other is a work of art, in the class of “Make love to the Godfather”.

    Since you like my riddles, here’s another simple one for you and anyone else who care to, to try,

    “Sounds like payment for a respiratory infection after many die in agony”. (1O). Still on food court theme.

    Just back. I spy two teasers already.
    Hmm..why do I get that funny, familiar feeling that renroc’s is a teaser at my Archille’s heel?!

    renroc: If only it was a sound like question, I would have gone straight for a mamak-stall’s bread version of Domino’s. Not going to try it tonight … got to save brain juice for tomorrow.

    pink: Same excuse for your contagious clue – refuse to be infected just yet.

    ckoh : firstly, must commend you for your berprinsip act of bone-breath (in cantonese : kuat-hei)! AND nothing escapes your eagle eyes! Good spotting of ckloh’s potential accident in carrying out your gallant request.


  98. Wow! pink, they’re now beyond the OSPD!? I used to spend too much time on memorising new words on a daily basis. I was proud of my vocab e.g. QINDAR & QANAT. I was still enjoying the game when I reached MIAOW & TRANQ, but it soon dawned on me that Scrabble is no longer about English!

    Too much time is required on memorization, so I gave it up years ago. How did you manage to get as far as ZEMSTIVO, SOUVLAKI, INFERIAE, ZOEAE, UNGUENTA, ZYGAENOID? Truly awesome…. amazing patience and dedication.

  99. ce5nt, it was the only right thing to do. It was already embarrassing enough that I didn’t know NASI KANDAR. To actually get points for it… oh how shameful! I’d rather be last on the list!.. hehehehe.

  100. gosh….didnt log in about 24 hrs and so much to catch up. Well, definitely good to meet up with you ppl (claire, pink aka…, ckoh and the rest). As for ce5nt, we meet all the time at hunts but still good to share a “the ring cocktail”. Only think is how to identify you ppl??? Hmm…that could be tough!

    ckloh : thanks for considering the idea. Would not want anyone involved with anymore admin too. But will trouble you to post them on behalf of those who email you (you choose which ones and when – yes, more than 1 at a time is fine – that’s what we get at hunts too, right?). Original setters follow up with explanations on due date.

    Good idea. May be neater to keep discussions of each new major subject or even treasure separate. No need to monitor “results” or “rank” or “score points” … kind of like newspaper crossword puzzles.

    Participants just “score /praise /kick yourself in the uknowhere (a new scrabble word?)” yourself when the answer is unraveled or confirmed.

    As we will have all witnessed, it’s the discussions that will be the centre of learning more than than the riddle itself.

    Having said that, riddles are never in any way belittled. They’re always honourably regarded by default, as catalytic pieces of conversational art! (speaking of yours too, ckloh!)

    Solvers :
    1. Not to post answers directly (very discrete hints- welcomed, that’s part of the thrill!) Said this in front of a mirror!

    1. Confirm and/or reveal answers with FULL explanation, 7 days after 1st posting (easy to remember). e.g. Posted by ckloh on Sat, setter reveals answer next Sat.

    3. Choose to drop further hints, clues if nobody seems to be getting it after 72 hours (nerve breaking point). Up to you.

    Show of hands(pens, mouse, keyboards, styluses, roses, tomatoes, eggs,), please? – ckloh & team -you decide after this : it’s your home, your show, your call. We’ll just be as glad, if it stays as it is.

    off for the encounter of the digital kind now.

  102. All seems like good ideas, ce5nt. Just to point out, after your heading “ORDER! ORDER! ORDER?:”, the small heading “Setters:” should be no. 2, not no. 1. OK, I’m off the the training hunt!

  103. pink, I can tell you’re a fan of the occasional crossword (or regular maybe) in the way you used “many”.

    Nice, but I would prefer the English variety!

    Cool one, though!

  104. Pink, Getting to be a real cryptic clue setter, you are. Good clue. Typical homophone, Malaysian Treasure Hunt style question, with good surface reading. Are you sure you have only done 5 hunts?

  105. pink: nice but not my kind of poison. I certainly would not die for it. besides that, I love mine warm and never on rocks.

  106. ad: you stumped me there. sorry that you did not wager, otherwise, you would have been at least 5 cents richer.
    will try again later (after intake of some local fare).

  107. ckoh: well done and tq. eagle eyes catch mis-spelling keyboard that now cannot even count. Hope you had a great training-hunt. I had a horrible digital outing.

  108. ckoh,
    New Collins IS OSPD. Have never ‘studied’ – gave up halfway thru ‘A’ words. Only play ‘normal’ words and whatever I learn from playing.

    2R&1I, Dr Clue & ce5nt – that easy, huh? I make a mean ice-blended one – ask Claire.

    I only do the Sund Star cryptic, but just tick on the clues as the 2 grids are not enuf to go round. Am midway thru today’s. ‘many’ came to mind just as I decided to make do with rolling the dice. Was agony ok? (asked you earlier, but you didn’t respond).

    Dr Clue
    Thx. Sum total of my road hunts: 2 in KL & 2 in Penang (with family). Also 2 mall hunts and one UMNO hunt many years ago. STFOGA will be a great experience with so many masters. Was supposed to only go for postponed MAH hunt.

    ce5nt: great guidelines. Especially like CONVERSATION STARTERS: …riddles are never in any way belittled. They’re always honourably regarded by default, as catalytic pieces of conversational art! My insurance. NEW SCRABBLE WORD? Hehe. Don’t fret, none from me. Have turned my back on the game.

    Dinner time!

  109. cen5t, (‘mis’placement of 5 still valid)

    You’re confused (certainly not by Pink’s type of ‘poison’ !) I didn’t dare bet against you, not Ad. Thanks for your clue, without which I would still be stumped.

  110. pink, is Claire from Penang too? You two seem to know each other very well. Another Scrabble Master hiding behind a pseudonym?

    Yes, I can agree with “agony” as an anagram keyword.
    Very good attempt.

    I’d rather do the weekday Star cryptic crosswords. I consider these more enjoyable as they contain a good mix of easy, challenging and difficult questions. In my opinion the Sunday ones are of a mid-to-higher level of difficulty. Besides I can take a peek at the answers whenever I get stuck. But if you’re happy doing the Sunday ones, by all means continue. Before you know it, you’ll be right up there with the rest of the hunting pros.

    Good luck.

  111. 2R1I,
    Claire is a Penang gal working in KL. We first met in late May when we teamed up for a SunWalk Hunt. She then recruited me for her team’s maiden hunt in KL. She visits whenever she’s back in Penang. Pity we won’t be in the same team for STFOGA – we clicked so well. What makes you think it’s a nom de plume?

    Been doing the Sunday one for years and it did help when my family went on our maiden (Coyote) road hunt -we came in 6th despite losing our way and being late.

    The crossword column once ran a sponsored 10-week clue-crafting competition. They provide the word, you craft the clue. Unbeknown to me, it was organised and meant for a Harvard fraternity in KL. I won 8 out of ten, to the chagrin of the elite group, especially when they found out that I only had 11 years of Malay-medium education. To come to the point, perhaps we can have such a challenge too? Provide a word(s) and we all craft a clue to be discussed and put to a vote. What do the others think?

  112. Btw, 2R&1I, cryptic crossword or not, you, ce5nt and Dr Clue are already up there amongst the hunting luminaries, I’m sure not in my eyes only. For me, I have no such lofty ambitions – just happy having fun and making new friends, like I have done playing scrabble.

  113. There I go again, using the wrong ID. lol

  114. hi pink, much better Q this time. Got stump with ur respiratory infection till i got some help. Good one!!

    ce5nt, you must have gotten somewhat infected earlier by ‘pink’s poison’ for taking me for renroc.

  115. Dropping by before bed…

    Wow! pink, eight out of ten! What an achievement! I have to reluctantly admit that that must be an indication of your clue-crafting ability. There must be something horribly wrong with my guidelines about clue-crafting! I myself have never competed in such competition before; and I’d imagine that there’s no way I can get even one out of ten. I still don’t like your Q3 & Q4 though, but I guess I have no authority to judge. Well done on your achievements!

  116. Glad you got it, Ad. Here’s another one for you (still on food): Flight assistants questioned relentlessly.

    Spent last 2 hours trying to complete Sunday Star cryptic crossword. All done except 13 across won’t fit.

    My ‘achievement’ was just a case of the one-eyed being in the land of the blind. I’m the first to admit and I’m sure you’re the first to agree that my clue-crafting is way below standard. I’m just having fun and have learnt a lot from the masters’ tutorage. It’s fine by me if you or anyone else doesn’t like my clues. Frankly, I don’t like yours either, but I wouldn’t say they are extremely lousy or deplorable, just not my style.

    Am still trying to figure out your riddle.

    Won’t be in 2moro. Going on a fun day trip.

    Happy blogging, all!

  117. Good morning, folks!

    In what way was your digital outing horibble? I’m fascinated by the idea of a ‘digital outing’. Was this the first of its kind? Or has it been done in the past? I don’t think any such hunts have been done here in KK. Was it also a motorised hunt? Treasures? Or virtual treasures?

    As for the training hunt, it was mainly for my team members. I set the questions, and they hunt under strict hunt condition. As I’ve said, we’re a very new team. We only have 2 hunts per year in KK. One is the DBKK which is fast turning into an amazing race. It is still a treasure hunt, but the amazing race element is increasingly beginning to overwhelm it. Just imagine a 7-hour hunt with only 25 Qs. The rest were mainly physical challenges including walking on bamboo stilts; coconut bowling; SMS speed (this one is OK); finding and collecting bags of rice; identifying tribal headgears from blur black & white pictures.

    The other annual hunt is the Kiwanis. Sometimes, if we’re lucky, we get one more hunt. For example, this year we had the Sutera hunt in April. So you can imagine how slowly we Sabahans will improve our game! That’s why I had no choice but to set training hunts for my team to do a bit of catching up.

    They didn’t do too well yesterday. 15 out of 30, no way to win anything decent in an open hunt! We’re still working on improving our game.

  118. pink,

    If you don’t like my questions, you are free to criticise them. Hopefully that will help all of us improve one way or another. If you find them deplorable, then by all means say so, and feel free to explain your views. Let us debate why they’re deplorable. If you’re able to convince me in the end, I am prepared to admit defeat. You’ve seen me admitting defeat on here several times — especially with my LAKSA against ce5nt…&^%&&#%$!

    However, I may not agree with you. I explained my position when I criticised your Qs, but the others may disagree with my views. Apparently, 2R&1I, for example, disagrees with my objection against CROSSJACK. I don’t have to feel sore about his opposing view. Let us not have an air of animosity between us for the wrong reason. I’m sure if we get to meet up one of these days, we would laugh at all this! At least I would.

    In fact, 2R&1I, are we still having makan-makan this weekend? By the way, I’m such a boring person, 2R&1I — I don’t smoke and drink alcohol, not even beer. Is there still a place to hang out without those in KL?

    Oh by the way, pink, I find your suggestion on clue-crafting on here a good idea. I’m sure all the masters are then able to show their skills. I for one would be able to learn a lot.

  119. Good morning people! Oh yes, pink’s ice-blended ones are wickedly delicious! Someone please stop me from drooling. Oh before anyone starts guessing what I’m talking about, I’m referring to ponk’s post on 24th June, 7.37pm.

    2R&1I, I’m not a scrabble master, just a girl who is crazily in love with treasure hunts.

    Hmm…looks like I’ve missed quite a bit here. I’ve really got to get myself a phone line (then streamyx) at home!

    Seriously (hehe) people, are we going to have a get together during the Stfoga Hunt? Or…is the high-tea included considered our gathering? Let’s have a game of trying to identify who’s who! Ok, ok…I can hear guns firing now…just a harmless idea!

    As there are quite a few riddles to be solved, I’ll post my poison..er…I mean concoction later…

  120. claire, allow me help you narrow down your search. 2R&1I is almost ALWAYS amongst the top 3 teams. And with the demonstration of his skills on here, being in the top 3 teams should not come as a surprise!

  121. Q. Flight assistants questioned relentlessly.

    Pink, you did not give the number of letters. I believe it is 12. Correct ah?

  122. It’s a 10-12 day for me today. Better post this before someone posts an APB on me. Catch up with more updates later. (Hint: ask the police).

  123. I know this is the wrong tread, but just for everybody benefit. Just called Sri Kandi, and the clerk in charge told me, they just have a meeting and STOFGA hunts confirm postponed to 29 July 2007.

    We suppose to have 2 hunts this week, STOFGA and MAH Hunt, but both postponed. So, no hunt this week.

    This is for the benefit of ckoh and pink, who travel all the way to KL just for the hunt.

  124. What the??! This is too much for my poor heart to take. I have to babysit our management team on the 28th & 29th July weekend, thus can’t join any hunts during that time. And I was so looking forward to hunting this Saturday.

    Is the postponement confirmed ckloh? I have to cancel my leave application. Yes, I actually applied leave just to participate in the hunt. Now I’m pissed.

  125. Oh my Lord! ckloh, what am I gonna do in KL!? A hundred years ago, when I was much younger, I used to love to listen to sentimental music. That was when music was still music; and songs were still songs. Of course these days music means a whole lot of loud noises; and songs are simply about lines of hardly comprehensible lyrics. Perhaps I’ll just sleep the day off in the hotel…

    Arghhh! I have to think over my plans about hunting in KL in the future. Does this usually happen? Or is it Murphy’s Law in action… since this was gonna be my maiden KL hunt? How disappointing! I had a bad feeling when they refused to release any information on the CoC.

  126. ckoh…I’m on the verge of pulling my hair out, or rather, pulling the organizer’s hair out. Apparently there are 3 hunts on 29th July and I can’t make it for any of them. Am so pissed. Sorry guys…hope you don’t mind me letting my frustrations out here.

    Oh ya, before I forget, updates on pink’s riddle:
    Pink’s riddle should correctly read as:
    Cowardly flight assistants questioned relentlessly.
    (19 letters)


  127. claire, if you are pissed, just imagine what I’m feeling now!

  128. Wow, you people are awesome! Each day I’m surprised anew. We’ve had grandmasters able to get the answers for ‘wrong’ questions. And now you’re able to update others’ clue, claire!

    I was still working on it when Dr Clue gave that ’12 letters’ for the clue. And I was still lost. And now, you’re saying 19 letters… afte the update! You people having cyptic clues for dinner?… hehehehe

  129. How disappointing to hear that STFOGA is postponed. Have any of you received calls from the organizers confirming what ckloh posted.

    Well, all is not lost. If there are volunteers we can stage a simple treasure hunt event of our own (just for the bloggers) on that day for those residing in Klang Valley. So we can still meet up and laugh over our blog comments, and strangle does that needs to be strangled (no TNT please, as it leaves quite a mess!).

    If all are keen, I’ll volunteer to provide the tulips and signboards. Any volunteers to be the CoC for the day (ckoh, ckloh, ce5nt, claire, pink, Dr Clue?) If someone could arrange the lunch destination (pay-our-own) that would be perfect. If everyone is willing to fork out say RM10 we could have some prizes for the top teams too.

  130. Hey that’s a great idea, 2R&1I…. beats sleeping in the hotel the whole day! And I’d gladly pay that RM10 as well, even if a little more to compensate the CoC’s time and effort! But I’ll have to consult my Tok Guru first if he’s keen on the idea. Otherwise, I’ll have to advertise myself as an orphaned hunter looking for a ride!

    Not too sure about becoming a CoC myself though — I’d probably spend the whole day figuring out your tulips, 2R&1I, and getting lost in the process, let alone setting the questions!… hehehehe.

  131. ckoh, don’t worry about transportation. I am sure there are a lot of willing drivers to ferry you around.

    Actually I think you’d make the perfect CoC – giving us a shot at attempting questions in your style (and criticizing it too, ha ha – I am sure pink & claire would love to comment on them) I’d say you have some fresh ideas and it would be a paradigm shift from the “stale” stuff we get regularly out West.

    Besides you do not need to figure out the tulips. I will prepare the tulips and provide you all the signboards in each sector too. Think and consider.

    All we need are the partipants now, if you agree.

  132. Wow! 2R&1I! I’m amazed! I’m now imagining you as a knight in shining armour…

    I’ll be more than glad to fork out RM10 or RM20 of more if need be. Just a suggestion, if a drive hunt is too troublesome, perhaps we could have a walk hunt say in… Midvalley or 1 Utama? Then it’s easier for us to find a place to eat, drink and chat after the hunt. And it’s good exercise too! Hehe…just a thought. But I don’t know if we’ll need any…umm…permission from the mall for that.

    As for being CoC…I’m not up to that standard yet… not even close! Still smelling people’s backsides. But I don’t mind helping in other ways.

  133. Cowardly flight assistants questioned relentlessly.
    (19 letters)

    Claire, Pink.

    The Q should be rephrased thus:
    Relentlessy grilled cowardly flight assistants. (19 letters).

    It is more accurate and fits the answer.

  134. Oops. Oops. Q should be :

    Relentlessly questioned cowardly flight assistants. (19 letters).

    Sorry if i spoiled the fun for some of you.

  135. 2R&1I,

    Thanks for the faith in me. Looking at the types of questions on here, indeed my ‘style’ is different. I think I’d describe my clue ‘style’ as crude and more suitable for actual treasure hunts rather than the cryptic types seen here. That was what I told ckloh in one of my emails to him. I explained to ckloh that they are not the same. I’m at an infancy stage as far as cryptic clues are concerned.

    Cry of surprise in troubled waters. (6 letters)

    Perhaps it’s still too soon for me to play the role of CoC for the pros. I am not worried about the criticisms, mind! But whenever I do anything at all, I’d like to do it well, and at this moment, I don’t believe that I can do that — not for an audience in KL! I want to be fair to the hunters. I want them to have fun.

    Maybe someday that’s pretty much the challenge I’d like to take up… but not yet! For now, I’d prefer to enjoy the ride!… hehehehe.

  136. Haha…Dr. Clue, I wanted to changed your re-arranged riddle…in order not to spoil the fun. But you beat me to it!

  137. Dr Clue …. oop! oops! I think you have spilled too much beans on pink’s Q.

    Claire, due to the shortage of time (this Saturday, right), I do not think we have time on our hands to go around snapping photos of signages in malls. Not to mention about getting the required approval.
    I will just share with the “volunteering CoC” all I have from my personal library. Then I can spend my week drawing up the tulips.

  138. Am beginning to feel like Claire!

    Was disappointed having to miss STFOGA, but now likely
    to miss something even more interesting – Mid-Year Hunt CNY-style !
    (have to be part of some disaster simulation activity till about 4 pm – how disastrous !)

  139. I am all for the ideas by 2R&1I. If you need any help, please let me know, I can help on almost everything barring preparing questions. Still can’t set proper good quality hunt questions.

    Agree, walk hunt is not possible. Just a suggestion, if preparing tulips is too troublesome for this timeframe, maybe we just do what Raj did on the BSentral Hunt. Just specify Seksyen 14 for example. And we make sure every cars has the driver that know all the places for the hunt. I know having tulips is more fun, but at least better than nothing.

  140. Well, looks like we all like 2R&1I’s idea of an ‘unofficial’ hunt. And I’d say we all don’t mind paying for the fun. But of course we still a CoC…

  141. It’s ok, drawing up tulips should not take up too much of my time. And signboards I already do have – just need to drive around to make sure they are still there. Now all we need is a CoC to volunteer himself/herself. And if we can have at least 8-10 participants (2 to a car), we have an event!

    Judging by comments posted so far, those that are in include. Anyone else?

    2 Romans & 1 Impostor

  142. oops!…. we still NEED a CoC.

  143. 2R&1I, Ok, I stand corrected. Should have known an experienced hunter like yourself has a library of hunts! Hehe…
    Umm… but don’t we need “permission” from the police as well for a motor hunt? Or rather…inform them. I remember doing something like that during my company’s hunt.

  144. Wondering where is ce5nt today? … He could be our real “Knight in shinning armour”.

  145. claire, as long as your driver does not exceed the 110km/h on interstate highways, 90km/h on city highways and 60km/h city limits (learnt a lot from Mr Rally’s JKJR questions), the people-with-the-cuffs will never find out I guess (wink wink).

  146. Latest news from Sri Kandi.

    The right contact person is Sally, 012-2995865.

    Spoke to her, she said the hunt is postponed on the request of the Ministry of Tourism, where the other Tourism Board of other states need more time to get participants from their own states. This is really an excuse to me, for their mismanagement, but have to listen on what they said.

    What really surprise me is they insist they will not do any refunds as this is not cancellation, just postponement. They said in the entry form it is stated no refunds cause. Wow, this sounds like a scam rather than a hunt. But she said she will talk to her management, since I brought up my team mates are from outstation. And she insisted that she don’t think she can do anything.

    And one more thing, she disclosed who is the COC. The COC is AAM Write. Any of the grandmaster heard before this COC? Please enlighten us. Thanks.

  147. ce5nt!!! Are you there? Yoohoo… Oh yeah…is it possible to have the hunt starting at about…1.30pm? Hehe…so I don’t have to take leave. Just trying my luck. But if it’s in the morning, I’ll be there too!

  148. ckloh, I think I am easily the hardest hit here. I don’t mind paying the air passage, hotel, and entry fee for the experience of the hunt. Postponement at this stage is gonna cost me. And then to be told that no refund on the entry fee as well? What if I can’t make it for July 29 and no longer able to join? And it does seem like I’m not gonna make it. I know it is not much… but as a matter of principle, why should we pay for their mishandling of the situation?

  149. Understood, I have a team mate from Penang too. Told them the same thing. And they told me the clause is written in the entry form itself. She tried to be nice and ask me how many car from me, I told her only one. She then said she will talk to the management, see can do anything, asked me to call again.

    It is like what I always see in movie, I don’t believe it, I experienced it myself today.

  150. It says in the entry form that:
    “The Organisers reserves the right to amend the rules / change or postpone the date / or cancel the event if it is deemed needful”

    Now does that include not refunding the money to us too?

  151. You are right, claire. Just check the clause is not there in the entry form. So, we have a case here.

  152. 2R&1I, got another participant, pink said she doesn’t mind joining in the “Blogger’s Hunt” this Sat.

  153. Beside this, we have, Joshua, CK, SC, GL and Julie our hunt partners for STOFGA also in.

    We have a problem here, I don’t think we have so many cars, if we go for 2 for each cars. I might be wrong.

    Just done with the last official visitor from New York, HQ.

    You guys are beginning to speak cryptease (quite tempted to use a religious analogy – but no). Every other paragraph seems to carry a cyrptic clue or a hint. Kind of like the Da Vinci Code novel – sprinkled with clues here and there.

    I say we go ahead with 2R1I’s hunt-for-thrills idea. The more the better, but it does not matter if nobody else can make it – there is no minimum number for meeting new friends. There’s already so much to talk about just within this cosy group.

    OK! I WILL BE “IT” but…
    I suggest that I co-COC with you, 2R1I. You send me the “pictures” and I propose the 1st draft and you put in the finishing touches (as in finish-them-off touches!ha, ha!).

    Let’s keep the hunt short – say 2 hours max, so we have time to enjoy the best part – the grilling or being grilled.

    We can avoid trouble with the blueshirts – by hunting in known “quiet-on-weekend” places. Off the main roads.


  155. Thanks ce5nt and 2R1I for doing the COC. I will volunteer to be the organising committee. All the registraton can come to me.

    The COCs get to ride with the participants to listen, watch and giggle at the rest as they get “skinned” or otherwise. A never-to-be-experienced-again opportunity!

    COCs get to hop from car to car at will! Yahoo!
    So, each car can only have 3 persons – the 4th Seat is ours!


    We come armed with video cams!


  158. ce5nt, where have you been my friend? Did you really have to keep us in suspense for such a long time!? Well, it was worth it, because you came back with such good news to us here!

    2 hours… hmm… that is short. How many Qs? Ts? Are we settled with RM10/head… or aren’t we adding a bit more for the CoC lah, even if this is only for fun.

    Oh yes, I was just at Michael Pang’s blog, and I read with interest the ‘unfinished report’ on the ‘digital’ hunt. He cautioned hunters to be careful with ‘hunts for fun’. Seems like quite a mess — a team robbed of first place; red BULL offered etc. What happened?

    Both of us do not have video cams!


    We will prepare the Briefing Notes soon.
    As in real hunts – you get them only at the last minute!

  161. ce5nt and 2R&1I…I could just kiss you guys now. Umm… may I just find out one thing, what time will the hunt start? Just want to know if I maintain my leave or cancel it. If it starts after 12.30pm, I can cancel my leave. I will keep pink updated as she is coming from Penang.

  162. claire : tq, but not now, dear!

    Give us another 24 hours – we should be able to annouce most of the details by then. Will that work for you?

  163. ce5nt, if you make the hunt just a little longer — say 3 – 4 hours — I have a feeling many silent watchers here might be keen to join as well. After all, all the wolves are now deprived of any hunt this Saturday. Although it is meant ‘for fun only’, I’m sure even grandmasters might want to join!

  164. ce5nt, sure, no problem! Let me know if you need my help in anything.

  165. ckoh: will consider that too.

    Please continue to blog us any pointers/ideas, but please also accept our silence. We may not reply to each comment or suggestion immediately but will do so eventually in one way or another.

  166. ce5nt, you are such a saint (hey, that rhymes!). What a roller coaster day. When I learnt about STFOGA, I was so overwhelmed with disappointment. And then it turned into frustration; and now elation. No nasi kandar now, ya hear!?

  167. Dear Pink “Spent last 2 hours trying to complete Sunday Star cryptic crossword. All done except 13 across won’t fit”.

    Sunday Star crossword is a good place to hone cryptic skills.

    13A. Q. Or you can create brethren with it. (5)

    Good luck.

  168. Interesting, finally our white knight has spoken!

    Not only is ce5nt back (in the blog), he is back with his tongue wagging too, with his usual wit and humour.

    ce5nt, ok, no problemo, consider the hunt logistics taken care of. So this is the unofficial Organizing Committee for Bloggers Hunt 2007 as I take it then:

    CoC: ce5nt

    CoC’s assistant: 2 Romans & 1 Impostor

    Registration: ckloh

    Prizes: ckloh (would you mind taking care of this as well? You decide on the $$ entry fee and put every cent back towards the prizes. I don’t think ce5nt and myself will want to keep any of it – consider it our little contribution)

    F&B (Dinner): Claire, you mind taking this? (since you opened your mouth, hee hee) Look for a place in the vicinity of Mutiara Damansara, as we will be finishing there. While you are at it, plan our menu too (hee hee) and let us know the cost. Make sure the owner does not mind us projecting the answers on his wall!

    And last but not least,
    the Willing victims: (er I mean participant list)
    If we can have 2 more pax, we can make 3 cars (of 3 pax) and we have an event.

  169. Like what ce5nt has said, let the show begin!

    To accomodate Claire, we will start the Bloggers Hunt after 1:30pm but not later than 2:30pm to avoid finishing in complete darkness.

    ce5nt or myself will publish the event agenda by Wednesday so that everyone knows what is coming their way. We will probably send it to ckloh (via the riddleQA@gmail.com) and get his help to forward it to all the confirmed participants, since he should have all your emails and we (ce5nt and myself) don’t.

    ckoh, a thought just crossed my mind? Do you have a plane to catch (back to KK) Saturday evening? Guess we need to juggle between your schedule and Claires. (how nice of us huh, seldom you hear of a flexible CoC adjusting towards the interest of the participants, hee hee).

  170. Count Julie in, my other hunt partners that I know from Michael Pang’s Solo Hunters program. She supposed to join us on the STOFGA. Don’t mind if I edit it above. So, we need 1 more. Just 1 more.

    Money colection and prize, i will encharge. No problem.

  171. Count Julie in, my other hunt partners that I know from Michael Pang’s Solo Hunters program. She supposed to join us on the STOFGA. Don’t mind if I edit it above. So, we need 1 more. Just 1 more.

    Money colection and prize, i will take care. No problem.

  172. ckloh, yes by all means, do include Julie. Sorry I had missed her out.

  173. No, 2R&1I, perfectly fine with me. I’ve anticipated it even before the postponement of the STFOGA. I’ve arranged to fly back on Sunday morning! I’m trying to convince my 2 friends to join, if you don’t mind, 2R. That’s OK, right? But of course they haven’t confirmed yet. I don’t see any harm to have a bigger crowd. The more the merrier! Oh I am very excited now.

  174. This look more like Riddle Raiders training hunt. Thanks ce5nt and 2R&1I for making this possible. Everything set.

    Just hope claire can get a very nice environment place for the gathering and answer presentation.

    But one thing, just a little concern, on Saturday afternoon to go Mutiara Damansara should be quite jem. But I think should be ok.

  175. ckoh, sure. The more the merrier. As many as the restaurant can accomodate! But make sure your friends do not have very high expectations of the prizes. This is after all a low budget fun hunt.

  176. Yes, of course, 2R1I. Will let you know soon.

  177. For further discussion on Bloggers Hunt 2007, please post it here.


  178. This is 178th post, already beaten last week high at 176th post.

    And today is still Monday!!!

  179. Come back to the STOFGA COC or event management called AAM Write? Anyone heard this COC before? Sorry for my not in-depth knowledge in the industry.

  180. Wah, so many things happened in my absence. Received a no. of SMSes from Claire, bless her, updating me.

    Dr Clue, thanks for improving the clue. Was dozing off when the idea struck – even forgot the ‘cowardly’ bit when I posted it so had to sms Claire to do the necessary. Yeh, you let the cat, umm, chicken out of the cage:)) As for 13A, I got ‘berth’ but it doesn’t fit with CASUAL for 5D (or is this the culprit?. The rest fit nicely.

    I was SO looking 4forward to STFOGA, the presence of the many masters competing notwithstanding, but the Saturday hunt sounds fun. Thx, ce5nt & 2R&1I. Could the time 2.30 be confirmed, please, so I can make my travel arrangements soon? TY.

    Hey ckoh, when did I ever say your clues are deplorable? I would’t even if they were, and debate about it I certainly would not – not my style to run anyone down. And what’s this talk about animosity? Hey, I’m too busy enjoying the good fun in here to allow the odd negative vibes to spoil things.

    ce3nt, are you serious about the videocams (never know for sure when that tongue is in your cheek)? I do have a small digital camera with video function if you really have the heart to have a good laugh at the victims’ expense – I’m safe coz you won’t be able to fit all of me into one frame!

    Wish I could contribute in some way. I could bake some cake (choc, orange, butter) or buns and distribute among the cars. What say you?

  181. hi ppl,
    sounds like a lot is happening here. Could you ppl count me in. would be interesting to hunt with new ppl. just hopefully we dont pull each other hairs out.

  182. Ad, the discussion on the Bloggers Hunt 2007 has been moved to another page. Follow the link a few posts above. I’m sure we’re all thrilled to increase the number of participants. This is fast getting to be like a regular hunt!

  183. Well, because of all this excitement about the Bloggers Hunt, it seems that we’ve neglected this main thread a bit. We don’t want to lose the momentum now, do we, ckloh?

    OK, as I was saying, the cryptic & TH Qs are not the same in my opinion. To take the examples found here:

    Q1. Make love to the Godfather. (6 letters)
    A1. Brando

    Q2. Her point taken. It makes sense now, doesn’t it?
    A2. Derina Fashion House.

    Notice that the general ideas/themes behind these clues are the same. The solver requires the basic knowledge of anagram, charade, definitions, containers etc.

    However, Q1 is totally independent of a signage. Once the solver figures out MAKE = BRAND, and LOVE = O, he can get Brando which is confirmed with Godfather. No need for signage. Absolutely ALL the information required found in the clue; and with the info, one can get the perfect fit for the answer. The solver can get to the solution totally blindfolded.

    For Q2, the solver also analyses the clue using the same basic ideas. But here he can’t be perfectly sure of the answer UNLESS he sees the signage — he can’t do it blindfolded. He MUST see the signage to confirm the answer, because after all, that signage might well have been, say DERNIA (as opposed to DERINA) Fashion House.

    Then we come to a third type of question, the type that is between the 2 discussed above. Such are the Qs found here. They are between a blindfolded and non-blindfolded — kind of a hybrid. One has no signboard to confirm the answer, and yet it is not exactly a blindfolded task. He is expected to ‘see’ the signage in his mind! I think it is quite unique because it doesn’t only require the analytical skills, but also the experience of being in a food court. Without that food court experience, the solver has almost no prospect of pursuing the answer! Accordingly, the clues for these Qs may also swing either way, i.e. cryptic or TH approach.

    Not that anyone cares, I guess…. hehehehe.

  184. 2R1I, ce5nt, pink, claire, renroc etc.

    Those of you who’ve posted clues — and we have quite a number by now! — perhaps it’s time to reveal the respective explanations. I’m fairly certain quite a fair number of the silent observers would like to know too. In fact, I’m sure that that is one of the main attractions on here — that and the ensuing discussions/debates after the revelations/explanations.

    Of course we didn’t reveal the answers too soon, because we wanted others to try to crack them first. In the end we need to show our cards, so to speak. If we continue to ‘speak’ in codes to the end, this place will eventually lose its appeal. At least that’s how I see it.

    I myself am stumped, e.g. renroc’s Q, I have no idea what’s the solution! If you don’t mind, renroc, how about you go first?

  185. ckoh,
    Knew that the Q might not be fair in an actual hunt due to the many possibilities for ‘Step 1’ but thought it could be solved because :
    i) much more time was available
    ii) ‘food court’ (almost the same degree of difficulty), was solved by at least 2 pax
    iii) indicating (4,5) instead of (9) narrows the search.

    Solution (Step 1) : Laroma split => laro ma

    Guess it will be solved now.

  186. Wow, what a clue, renroc. I think your expectation of us is very, very high. You are correct, in an actual hunt, there is just no way I would be able to get the answer! Let’s leave it at that for a moment, and let the rest work it out. But you need to reveal the answer later. Don’t leave it unanswered in the end. I think you’d surprise some people with the solution.

    renroc: I knew it. You WERE stabbing at my archille’s heel. (Sorry, AD for false accusation of wager earlier).

    This malaysia’s favourite breakfast being mother’s is best is much talked about. renroc, leave it to you to unravel. (Telepathy with 2R1I helps to confirm a hunch – thanks 2R1I!)

  188. ce5nt,

    You’ve obviously solved it, but I still can’t understand how I could’ve stabbed at your Achilles’ heel since I don’t even know where it is. Are you sure you have one ?

  189. CORNER-ED?
    Anyone who is not perfect has one maybe even two.
    You tahu-lah mana saya punya! Percakapan, perbualan – I know, that “back talk”? I think I last used it in my peperiksaan days! Needed a big time help to recall!

  190. ce5nt,
    Was still wondering where that ‘heel’ was after I posted the comment (reminded me of the ‘White-Brow Priest’ in those Shaolin movies of the 70s) – suddenly recalled your ‘layu’ comment and guessed correctly. I knew neither ‘layu’ nor ‘sandar’ and knew “back talk” because of my “peperiksaan days” !

  191. Solution for “Laroma split local fare (4,5)”

    Laroma split => laro ma
    local fare : ‘definition’
    local (being adjacent to ‘laroma split’) also serves as an indicator to translate ‘laro ma’

    laro => oral (backwards) => lisan (backwards) => nasil
    ma => emak

    Ans : nasi lemak

    (Though not part of the Q, ‘renroc’ was intended to trigger ‘thinking backwards’)


    Agree that ‘split’ is not really necessary.
    My first draft was just “LAROMA” but that is even more difficult and would be really stretching the limits of fairness.

    The solving process leads to nasil emak (5,4),
    but (4,5) is specified in the Q so the ‘reassembly’ seems covered.

  192. Think that the surface reading of the Laroma Q was rather weak. The furthest I can s t r e t c h my imagination is for Laroma to sound like some European group/team who
    a)share some local food or
    b) go ‘Dutch’ after taking a local taxi

    (Started drafting the Q when I saw ce5nt’s comment on ‘DOUBLE UP’ shortly after Ad’s ‘French resort’.)

  193. Four little words… one big answer… =)
    That’s how far we are from you, renroc…

  194. This entry will be closed from commenting soon. Pls proceed to Question 5’s entry for commenting

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