June 2007 Riddling Riddles – Riddle 5

July 4, 2007

The same ol’ stuffs again and again. Hope you enjoy from the previous questions.

The theme is still food court. For any Q&A correspondence and question answering, pls email to riddleQA@gmail.com

This is the final riddling riddles for June 2007. Thank you for your participation so far. We will continue the food court riddles for July 2007, and we will change to other themes on August 2007. Enjoy!

5. Killer Riddle – Pause off the chaotic main Railway Terminal for this snack. (5 letters or less)


Answer: Satay

Important Notes: Someone called us and actually he get it right!! As mentioned earlier, we don’t have gmail access in office, need to rely on a router program to route it to our office mail. The router program response time might faile us. Seems, that the clue is broken after all. But we will confirm again when we check our email tonight. 

Important Notes: So it is CONFIRM that we actually have a winner for KILLER RIDDLE. The time sent to our gmail is 6.29 pm.  We would like to express on our regrets on the technical error.  And the winner, ONLY 1, obviously not ‘tembak’ the answer. Below is the solution sent by the winner.


main = SEA

chaotic SEA = ASE


PU = SATA (eg ATAS = UP; both backward)

Railway Terminal = Y (terminal indicator of last letter of Railway)


And the winner for Killer Riddle 5 and winner for June Riddlist Column is cmliong from Penang. Total points collected, 17 points.

Riddlist Rankings found here.


Some were very close, they got the correct food, but in the wrong language  –  ‘sate’.

Another got the almost perfect explanation but for the wrong answer. Why wrong? The answer must also fit the theme of the riddle which is items found in food courts. If the item is not commonly found in food courts then we cannot accept the answer. We will gladly give you the points if you could proof to us otherwise. (Name of foodcourt and stall that shows your answer).  To that person, if you give us a written permission or a go ahead, we will gladly publish your answer together with your explanation so that others might ponder on it and give us their views. We agree that this is not a very fair clue in actual hunt. But we think it is rather fair as the killer riddle clues due to:
1) Much more time given than the actual hunt
2) The same technique is discussed last week thoroughly (laroma clue), so there is precedence
3) For a Killer Riddle, we hint that it is a snack that are 5 letters and below. And we always say it is a common food court items. For a snack that is commonly exist in food court with 5 letters and below, the list is really countable by fingers, perhaps one hand is enough.

Pause off the chaotic main Railway Terminal for this snack. (5 letters or less)

Let us break the sentence and look at the word/s as follows:
main = sea (in literature, commonly used in hunts)
chaotic main = ase (anagram)
Pause off the chaotic main = pause – ase = pu
Railway Terminal = y (Terminal is the end indicator, the last letter of Railway is y)

So we are left with :


PU = SATA  (back UP = ATAS)


As usual we are open criticism/ridicule, we don’t mind as we are still learning in crafting clues. Fair or not fair? Shoot us if you think it is not fair, we learn together.

Thanks everybody for participating.




    If you get an answer that is different from what you have in mind but can be explained 100% to fit – will you accept it?

    That is a real challenge in real hunts – the COC often reserves the right NOT to accept even if the alternative answer fits. That to many is unfair.
    But rules are rules!

    So, what’s your stand? (this is a chance to learn an aspect of the sport’s dynamics!)

  2. Hallo!! It’s good to be back! And what a whole lot of changes since a couple of days ago!

    I see we have a new killer riddle, huh? And indeed it is a killer. Something brewing in my mind now… ckloh, I’m asking this Q again: how many tries each? If we can have more than one, I’m poise to post my tembak right now!… hehehee…. otherwise, I’ll wait for a bit. It does make a difference!

    OK… let’s see… how do I find my way to discuss about that horrifying hunt last week?…..

  3. ckoh,

    One try only. The second tries onwards will be ignored. Sorry, for not making this clear earlier.

    All the general discussion, please post it in the Post Hunt.

    To discuss about a specific questions, please click categories Hunt Qustions.

  4. Have few queries on how to search the posts. Please fully utilise the panel on the right side, Archives and Categories.

    Archives is grouped by posting done on the month itself. It is quite straight forward.

    Categories currently are divided into the below group.
    – Hunt Events
    – Hunt Questions
    – Hunt Results
    – Riddles
    – Team Discussions
    – Team news
    – Treasure Riddles

    Please explore the panel on the right to help you to search the correst post. Thanks.

  5. Boy oh boy….what a “physically challenged” hunt we had last saturday. The “ordeal” of cracking the clues coupled by the hot sun was too much to handle and i trust even if given more time ie “spanning over two seasons”, we still would not have managed any better results. hehehe…
    The whole duration of the hunt, we couldn’t even have a break or a “kit kat” as we were “shaved” by the twisted minds of the Romans and his small change. I think even the “Swiss that gone joining with the French” were lost together.
    However, luckily for us, we still managed to reach our “Restless pal’s place” but due to our excitement and shortage of time, we left our small pal, “Bogus” out, and that cost us dearly.
    All in all, we all had a great time and thanks to Pink for her wonderful biscuits and Lily for the goodies, 3 cheers to the setters and the Riddle raiders team for if not for them, we wouldnt have met and enjoyed a wonderful Hunting time. Well done to the winners and keep up the spirit of blogging here.

  6. ce5nt, since you bring up this in the Riddle 5, are you saying you have a 100% fit answers for Riddle 5, but think that it might be different with our answers?

    Or you saying this generally?

    Generally speaking, I don’t mind what is the COC decision as long as it is consistent. If the COC do not accept other answers even though it is 100% fit, make sure it is consistent, for all of their hunts.

    It is frustrating if in some hunt, the COC accept it and the other hunt the same COC not accept it, and both is to your disadvantage.

    Yes, you are very right about the consistent inconsistency. Sad!

  8. AD: Well done! I always enjoy “reports” like your kind — clever potpourri – in the same class as meg’s! It’s in your blood too!

  9. All the grandmasters, please give some comment to the last week normal riddle contributed by a newbie.

    Love the cocktail served regularly in Bush residence. (5 letters or below)

    I am sure he/she will be grateful to get some pointers. Thanks.

  10. Hi all.

    Just got back from KL. Would like to say a big THANK YOU to everyone involved last Saturday’s great fun hunt, especially the 2 very able, if rather heartless, volunteer coc’s. Showed the Q’s to my wannabe hunter son and, sharing my own sentiments, he pronounced them “First Class!”. Ce5nt & 2R&1I, syabas! We certainly learnt a lot from those Q’s.


  11. ckloh, I am no grandmaster, but I’d like to comment a bit on last week’s Q.

    Q) Love the cocktail served regularly in Bush residence. (5 letters)

    A) Teh O

    First of all, I must say that the surface reading is OK. At least it has a meaning; there is a ‘story line’.

    I think that word ‘regularly’ is not necessary for this question — we can do without it. I am not so sure if it is a fact that TEH O is regularly served in the White House. If it is, I guess it is a statement of fact. Otherwise, one can even argue that that word can backfire against the setter. However, some CoCs may consider it useful for the sole purpose of confusing the solver. If it were me, I’d rather avoid the possibility of backfiring altogether. I suppose one can also argue that the ‘teh’ here refers to ‘high tea’, but that ‘O’ after ‘TEH’ is still very tricky to handle.

    My second comment is on the defective construction in terms of grammar. As a general rule, when something is owned or belongs to someone, we would put the apostrophe followed by the ‘s’ after it. Therefore, in this case, it should have been: … in Bush’s residence. The exception, sometimes, is when the ‘owner’ ends with an ‘s’, e.g. the name Karis. In such a case, we say … Karis’ residence (apostrophe without the ‘s’ after). But also acceptable with the ‘s’ after the apostrophe, i.e. … Karis’s residence.

    As far as the difficulty level is concerned, I think this Q is OK for a ‘normal riddle’. I know it may be easy for some people. In fact, I dare say with an audience of grandmasters with 15 – 20 years hunting experience, not very many questions are difficult on here, provided that they obey the general ‘rules’ to clue setting. So to the newbie who set this Q, I must say you’ve done OK!

    Good to hear from you again pink. The silence at your end was unusual especially after an eventful outing like last Sat. Thanks for the kind words! Hope it will make a good difference in your future t/hunt adventures!

  13. Is it me, or some comments just won’t get through?

    Ditto to ckoh’s comments. Otherwise, good idea, good choice of words! “Love the cocktail served in Bush’s residence!” would have been the perfect version. Encore!

    I think ckoh and I have the same experience.
    We tend to type lenghty comments and when we “Submit Comment” – it does not get submitted – and we have to do it all over again.

    I think we have to keep each comment short … if we have more to say, we have to break them up. I believe a kind of TIME OUT mechanism is causing this phonemenon!

  16. whiTE HOuse!
    ckoh: not sure if you noticed it or not. Your comments did not imply you did!

  17. W.A.R. – WORD THEN BLOG!
    ckoh: I have a Work ARound for our style of blogging.
    First use WORD to write our long stories and then copy & paste over to this space! Then Submit! Savvy?

  18. Oh, I would be very ashamed of myself if I failed to see the significance of whiTE HOuse, ce5nt! In fact, that was the part of the Q that confirmed my answer for love = O + the = TEH anagrammed.

  19. Hehehe… would you really go through all those troubles to post here, ce5nt?

    But, seriously, ckloh/josh, how come I had no such problems in the past? The problem is getting more frequent recently.

  20. Btw, ckloh, with less than 12 hours to go, how many have submitted their answers to your Riddle 5? Anyone got it right?

    This time, eventhough I don’t know the answer I’ve decided to tembak! Of course it’s not just blind tembak — there are reasons for it. Mana tau can hope for fluke shot? Not a very satisfactory way to try to get points, but then again why waste the try, right?

  21. Less than 5 submitted so far, but can’t disclose whether have anyone get it right. You will know by 7pm.

  22. STOFGA latest, confirmed will be held on 21 July 2007.


    Adalah dengan ini Srikandi Wawasan berterima kasih kepada penyertaan anda kepada projek pencarian harta karun 2007.

    Berikut adalah tarikh,masa dan tempat bermula Projek pencarian Harta Karun 2007.


    MASA : 8.00 PAGI – 6.00 PETANG

    TEMPAT: Bangunan Sultan Abdul Samad (Dataran Merdeka)

    Eye On Malaysia( Taman Tasik titiwangsa KL)


  23. Truly unbelievable… We hunters have been trying to hit a moving target for a couple of weeks now. First, it was on the 30 June; then postponed to 29 July; now 21 July. And it seems that the target is STILL moving! I suppose the organizer seriously expects us to trust them on this latest date, huh?

    To the organizer of STFOGA, if you are reading this, let me tell you that the level of confidence in you is very low right now. Unfortunately, I have other commitments on that day. Contrary to what you might think, it is not that simple for us to simply drop everything else at your whimp and fancy.

  24. To the rest of the wolves, I wish you all the very best in the STFOGA. I was very excited when ce5nt said that every pack of wolves would be there. I was really looking forward to ride against with elites. Maybe we will meet again in the Sun Hunt. See you there.

    As long as STFOGA holds the event, they seem to have the right to hold on to our money. Wonder what our legal wolves in the 90% think?

  26. Check with the clerk of Sri Kandi, she told me that the date should be quite confimed on 21 July. Initially, they want to do it on 29 July, but received too many complaints that it clash with the other 2 hunts held on the same date. So, they have to choose a date that don’t clash with any hunts, and so this is the date 21 July.

    But base on their reputation, anything can happen!

  27. REASONABLENESS. That is what we’re asking for, ce5nt. If we had signed up for the hunt, and then later found out that we can’t make it, then we’re at fault. In that case, then I think it’s OK if they retain our money.

    But here we have the reverse. They’re the ones who can’t make up their mind when to do the hunt. They keep changing the dates and expect everyone else to be on their toes, waiting and waiting. And then we’re supposed to react at a moment’s notice. Just because they’re going ahead with the hunt one of these days, doesn’t mean that they can do as they please. What if they’re postponing the hunt till next year?

  28. It doesn’t matter anymore, ckloh. I’ve committed to hunt in another hunt on that day. I’ll be damned if that hunt is also gonna be postponed.

    Dr Clue, your hunt is certainly going ahead, right?

  29. Hmmm. I smell something interesting brewing out in the East. What hunt is happening there, ckoh?

  30. Nah… not in the east, 2R1I. I think several weeks ago, I told 2 Imposters about this particular hunt. It’s a closed one by ISM/PEPS. Scheduled on 21/22 July KL-Cameron Highlands. I’ve never had an overnight hunt before. So I thought it should be interesting. When I was told that it’s gonna be by TOS, I immediately confirmed my participation.

  31. No need to seek permission, it’s your blog and it’s not a top secret. Just publish his/her version and let the floor decide. He/she will know to whom it may concern and you don’t have to reveal the contributor. Let’s hear it.

  32. Three sent the answer TARTS. One of them gave the below explanation, which we think it is fair. Only things

    1) TARTS is not normally found in food court.
    2) main = play? In BM, we understand. But this is English, how to relate main (English) = play? Please enlighten us.

    The analysis:

    It is a two part question.

    1st Part: PAUSE off the chaotic.

    When the “pause is off” – it STARTS.

    the chaotic = anagram indicator.

    Therefore = STARTS = TARTS – giving the snack.

    2nd Part: main Railway Terminal

    main = play = anagram indicator

    Railway : STAR is our local railway service. The capitalisation is to hint that it is referring to a “brand” or “proper name”.

    Terminal is often abbreviated as “T”.

    In fact all terminals are abbreviated as T ” as in T1, T2, T3 (airport).

    Therefore : STAR+T = START = which defines “PAUSE OFF” also.

    main = play = anagram indicator.

    Thefore, START becomes TARTS – the snack.

    Heard of egg tarts and coconut tarts?
    I know of at least two foodcourts in KL;
    basement of SEMUA HOUSE and 2nd floor of CITY ONE (these buildings are next to each other in the Masjid India area). I think the name of the shop is SWEET TEMPTATIONS! RM1.50/RM1.80 a piece.

    This is Malaysia! Manglish is an accepted “language”. Who is to know if the setter has not decided to set a new trend?

  34. ce5nt, a very very good try.

    We have around slightly more than 10 entries for the killer riddle 5, and 3 shoot TARTS.

    Out of the 3, you are the only one that gives us an almost perfect explanation. Kudos! I am amused how well you justified your answer.

    Ok, can accept your explanation on TARTS as food court items, although it is not common. But Manglish usage as an indicator is not currently accepted in hunt, and we don’t intend to set a new trend.

    Sorry, very sorry ce5nt. Next month.

    FYI, next month themes are still food court, common food court items. On August and September, we will move on to MNCs (Multi National Companies) hunt.

  35. ce5nt,

    Liked the analysis for ‘tarts’. Didn’t see satay or anything. Going for the novices hunt with my son (in different cars, coz they don’t want 2 newbies in the same team, I guess). The Q’s will definitely be much more merciful than the bloggers’ hunt but the coc’s reputation is another matter altogether. We are determined to have fun anyway 🙂

    Pink + pinklet, rest of RR gang, 5050 : good luck in this weekend’s adventure. Come out podium finishers (in any order)!

    What I observe this far: even if one knows all the food in a foodcourt (anyone does not know Rojak or Satay – please shout!), one will still not solve an RR Killer Riddle. It takes more than SALT!

    Let’s say we all chip in and start a list of all food/beverages found in foodcourts now… arranged in number of letters order, we will still NOT solve any of the past two Killer Riddles and I dare say even subsequent ones.

    Not so sure, but in all the air-conditioned foodcourts I have been so far – I dont go to many though – I don’t remember seeing satay being put out as a fare. More so in OPEN “medan seleras” and kopitiams.

  38. ckoh…I share your sentiments about the STFOGA hunt organizers. Initially they postponed it to 29th July and I knew I couldn’t make it, so I thought… what the heck and I purchased plane tickets back to Penang on 20th July…the day BEFORE they sent out that stupid email saying that it is now on 21st July. I mean…what the hell??

    So for all you fellow hunters who will be there… GOOD LUCK! (In more ways than one!) Enjoy yourselves!

    PS: Could someone please do me a favour and PULL EVERY FRIGGIN’ HAIR OUT from the organizers? Do that only if they won’t refund our money.

    *Please pardon my language

    Speaking of SATAY – it was right on top of my list of INSTINTs. I am sure many had this on theirs too.

    But logic is unable to defy the gravity of this target. So it was dropped!

    Then it was left to gut feeling – but in a game of intelligence : one will not have the courage to venture with it, and so that got passed out too.

  40. oops : bad keyboard : s/be INSTINCT on both counts!

  41. Well Done! “PENANG” RIDDLE KILLER! (Guess we will know who it was soon!). Do share your adventures in this blog with us thus far! Can’t wait to learn from the true masters!

  42. ce5nt, in KLCC air conditional food court, there is one stall called Sate King or Satay King, a fast food chain in air-conditioned food court, not remember which is which. But have menus with both sate and satay word on it.

    Medan selera, in English also called food court, right? So, when we mentioned about food court, it might means the air-conditioned one or not.


  43. ce5nt, 5050 is not joining us in the novice hunt. Our other 2 members, are JK Lim, colleague of both Joshua and mine and also YH Lim, Paulete’s son.

    pink, the reason it is splitted, is not what you think, but much more the other way round.

    cmliong: I am sure I speak on behalf of the rest of the bloggers here. We like to see more active participation especially from those in the silent 90%!

    This is a great blog to share experiences from different parts of our lovely country. Support it! Inviting you and the other Northern Hunters to chip in and promote the growth of this sport/game nationwide!

    Collectively we (enthusiasts, COCs, masters, regulars, etc) can be a very powerful attraction to newbies – watching at the sidelines – let’s pull all of them in!

  45. ckloh: Ahhh! So now we know where you hang out! Guys – there’s your point of reference!

  46. ce5nt, fyi, this clue is not crafted by me, my master, willie65 did it. I am just in the test drive team.

  47. Most of the killer riddle will be crafted by willie65, and the normal riddle, priority is given to the contribution from the public.

    And almost every one of Riddle Raiders members will craft the clues and sent it to willie65, and he is the one to choose which to publish.

    So, if you know my hang out point, it is not sufficient. Tips, you might need to know where pink hang out too in Penang!

  48. Master Liong, I have the same sentiment of ce5nt.

    Newbies like us will be very glad to learn from you and share some of your experience.

  49. Good mornin’ folks! Hmm… looks like some I missed out on some excitement last night, huh? Wonder when the hell are those guys really gonna deal with my streamyx at home.

    So…. SATAY…. You want comments, ckloh? Well, I don’t mind if I do!

    First, that word ‘main’. I’m not objecting main = sea. But I fail to understand your objection to main = play. Malaysian hunt Qs are bilingual, aren’t they? Are you saying that you will only accept main = play if the entire sentence was in Malay?

    Secondly, I think the sentence isn’t quite accurate. Essentially, what you’re saying is this:

    PAUSE OFF ???? = SNACK.

    It seems like you are telling the solver to remove ‘PAUSE’ (or its other meanings) from something, and as a result of that removal, you would get a SNACK. For example:

    Pause off pSaAuTsAeY would derive SATAY.

    One can’t remove pause from ase. It should be the other way round. It would have been different if you said something like: ase off pause …..for a snack. In that case, then the solver is instructed to remove the ase from the word pause.

    Therefore, that pause off should be taken as a whole, and it is in this sense that I thought the pause off = start is brilliant! I say brilliant, not perfect! Looking at the clue from an overall point of view, it is the most promising and logical approach. The interpretation that you offer is inferior, in my opinion.

    Alas, my analysis skill is obviously not up to the mark. All my workings fell short of getting anywhere close to the solution. In the end, I tembak CAKE – for the sake of tembak!

    I also disagree that tarts can’t be considered as a food court item. If you can accept roti bakar, then I don’t see why tarts is disqualified.

  50. OK, let me put it in a different way, ckloh. What do you think I mean if I said to you:


    Do you think it means I’m telling you to take away the property from your hands? Or do you think I’m telling you to take your hands away from the property?

  51. ckoh, we are just learning here. Lets discuss.

    Agree on what you say on
    Pause off pSaAuTsAeY would derive SATAY.

    But we view it on this
    Pause, off the chaotic main

    There is a comma after the pause, of court in clues, no punctuations, commas and dots will be used as mentioned in the First Knight question.

    So, we think it is accurate
    Pause, off the chaotic main = Pu
    Pause, off the ase = Pu


    This might be a bit deceptive. As you interpret, you interpret this.
    Pause off, the chaotic main

    So, it is matter where you put the comma.

  52. To answer your question, to me it can means both.

    – to take your hands away from the property

    – to take away the property from your hands

  53. ckloh, thanks for the explanation. As I’ve said before, I was initially educated in Malay. That must have been like a million years ago! I seriously started learning English after that — I mean really seriously!

    My feeling is that the word ‘OFF’ here is in itself wrong to start with, regardless of where that omitted comma was meant to be. Maybe if you had said: Pause, less the main chaotic…, then the effect would have been different. But OFF standing on its own, to be taken to mean ‘TAKE AWAY’ doesn’t sound right to me.

    I think the inspiration for this clue originated from the “lazy” Malaysian style of switching on or off lights! See the light-er side of it?

  55. ce5nt, if laziness leads to something that is wrong, then it makes unfair questions.

    My 5-year old JJ would say, ‘Off the light daddy, I can’t sleep!’.

    And I would correct her with, ‘not off the light, Jamie. Say SWITCH off the light.’

  56. Totally agree with ckoh that “Malaysian hunt Qs are bilingual” just like your answer “PU” is a reverse “ATAS” in BM. No need for an indicator to tell u to do that. Stretch one’s imagination a bit like what ce5nt did, I think his explanation is quite acceptable though not perfect. People do desperate things in desperate times, don’t you agree ?

  57. MAIN PLAY – PART 2!
    You will know what to do if on Sunday you get a question like “Main topics for clear subjects!”

  58. ce5nt, base on your experience, does you come across this before in actual hunt.

    “Main topics for clear subjects!”

    I have less experience, that is why I asked you earlier to enlighten us. But in your earlier post, you mention, maybe we want to set the trend. So, base on your response it gives me a picture that no one is doing this in hunt before, so can’t accept your answer, as we don’t intend to set the trend as mentioned earlier.

    But seems that everyone is pretty sure that it is alright, so please enlighen me again if there are actually hunts that do it before. If the answer is yes and can give us example, we need to ponder what to do next.

  59. Just finished a snack from Sweet Temptations – a cheese tart (RM1.50).
    Not so sure about bilingual Qs though the process of deriving the answer can, of course, be multilingual -including French and Spanish.
    Hope Manglish won’t be on the horizon – imagine ‘Why you so like that?’
    Ingenious analysis by ce5nt to arrive at ‘tarts’ !
    The ‘double-baked tarts’ is more difficult than the actual solution.

  60. ckloh, I don’t claim to have more experience than ce5nt as far as treasure hunt is concerned. But from my own analysis, I can see no reason why ‘main’ can’t be ‘play’ and vice versa. As I said, Malaysian hunt Qs are bilingual. Hunters should have the flexibility and freedom to translate both ways. What’s more, as I’ve said before, the CoC is not obligated to give an indicator for the translation.

    In the Sutera, I gave this:

    Q) Datang dari timur ke barat jumpa Jln. Takar.
    A) Klinik Dr. Raj.

    As you can see, I gave no indication of translation in the Q. Hunters are free to translate as they like. Which means that they may just find a more perfect fitting answer within this sector.

    For example, within that sector, there might have been a signage showing: NLJ. RAKAT. If there was such a signage there, then I would have had to accept that too as the correct answer.

  61. renroc, I like your ‘Why you so like that?’. That is soooooo Manglish! Tell me, what’s your opinion on the word OFF in the clue? Here is takes the meaning of ‘take away’.

    1. FRIEND ST(ation)… ER
    SENTRAL – ER => SNTAL => nothing edible.
    2. HESI (s)TATION
    HESITATE – HET (the chaotic) => SIATE + Y (railway terminal) => SATEY ? but what is I doing here ? Main ??
    3. PotPOURRI Station
    Reached PUY here – maybe PURY ? (railway terminalS) but have only seen PURI and POORI, PURT ???
    Long shot : PURY
    Any snack endind with Y => ….Y => SATAY
    but MAIN + SATA can’t make any synonym of pause !
    Another long shot, I thought !
    How embarrassing to be ‘LAROed’ here!
    PU=>SATA is exactly like LARO=>NASIL !
    5.Railway Terminal
    Getting nowhere – any snack ending with RT ? taRT
    theta is Greek – not a synonym of pause !
    No point ‘tembak’ing !

  63. Good, it is quite sometime we haven’t have a good discussion. The discussion point is

    1) Is ‘off’ meaning ‘take away’ fair?

    2) Manglish is ok when deriving the answers. But is Manglish in the questions itself fair?


    This is the scenario, if you is the COC
    a) cmliong choose satay with perfect explanation match with the COC explanation.
    b) ce5nt choose tarts with perfect explanation, but not so sure on the manglish in question part.
    c) another 2 answers are tarts, but the explanation given do not break the Railway = STAR and Terminal = T, and it mentions it is a tembak answer.

    Which one you will reward the points?
    a) or b)
    a) or b) or c)

    Currently our stance is a).

    But we really want to listen from eveybody, whats everybody opinion. As we said, we still learning. And we hope, once we choose the stance we will consistent in following the stance throughout the riddles that we craft.

    I think COCs also will be interested to see what the hunters thought.

    All grandmasters/masters/COCs/hunters/newbies, what say you?

  64. Hehehehe…. looks very much like my own workings here, renroc! Amazing how the human minds work. But in the end, I said to myself: OK, just drop all those complications; why not just try to solve it from the very simple approach…. now what do we have?

    OK… let’s see, what do I have here. Ah, yes, it’s the ‘complicated’ train system all over KL map just obtained from the front desk of Tune Hotel. Hmmm… looks like the KL SENTRAL is the main terminal? OK, let’s see what I can get from there?


    Pause… what’s that? REST?… STALL?



    Nah… still nothing….

    KNALL…. KNALL… Hmmm….maybe L+L=C?. OK, so we have NACK?… Nope.. still no good….

    OK, time’s almost up now… Hmm…. anyway to connect the N to E?… nope… no way… well, never mind. Why waste a tembak?

    CAKE!…. and I still think it’s silly. No way to change the N to E!

  65. I hope you guys don’t mind if I voice out my opinion on the matter brewing here…

    Personally, I do not fancy questions being set in a mixture of both English and BM. Eg. “Main topics for clear subjects!”, where “Main” here is actually a BM word, referring to “play”, anagram indicator. For me, a good question uses one language.
    But the answers on the other hand, can be in BM or English (or French or Spanish for that matter!) or even a mixture, and not necessary to have an indicator, like “local”, etc. Therefore making us work our grey matters more.

    It is easier to debate on whose answer fits the question in a blog, just like what’s happening now, the actual answer for Killer Riddle 5 and ce5nt’s answer. Here, we have ample space and time to do so at our own leisure.
    However, if we are in an actual hunt, HOW and WHEN will a participant justify his/her answer to the Coc? During the Q&A presentation? After the Q&A? Let’s say the actual answer is ABC, and a team got XYZ but they could justify their answer (The question of WHEN arises again) and they got a point. Then what about other teams who got XYZ as well, but did not approach the Coc to justify their answer? Not justifying doesn’t mean they can’t. There could be various reasons at that point of time. So what would the Coc do? Award points to all teams who answered ABC or XYZ?

    I hope to read more opinions on this. It is important to uphold the integrity of Cocs and of this wonderful game.

  66. Well said, claire! I have to reluctantly agree that it is a bad idea to set Qs in a mixture of English and Malay. And I have to admit that I have never seen one before. But what exactly are we saying? Are we saying that just because it has never been done before, then it can’t be done now?

    The other day, I was asking about ANNE = N without any ‘sounds like’ clue. Apparently it is commonly accepted in the west. I have a feeling that at least some of the hunters in KK would challenge me if I were to introduce it here.

    Is it fair to set such a question? Well, my argument is that if we expect the hunters to translate into Malay/English without giving a clue for the translation (local/Malaysian), then why can’t we expect them to arrive at ANNE = N without the ‘sounds like’ clue?

    You expected the solvers to go from SHEET to KEPING to LEMBAR to HELAI to SAIL ……..to CROSSJACK. So what is so wrong from MAIN to PLAY and then to treat it like an anagram indicator? If it is logical and makes sense then we shouldn’t disqualify it on the grounds of ‘never been seen before’. If it fits, it fits. Period!

    11-2B = I want to be? It fits based on the sounds like clue. Can I complain? Sure I can! But in the end, it still fits! How should I know that the first ‘1’ must be changed to the letter ‘I’ which is the roman numeral for ONE? But it makes sense doesn’t it? The fact that the setter didn’t think of the possibility of MAIN = PLAY shouldn’t automatically disqualify that possibility.

    There remains the question of which solution is ‘stronger’ and more convincing. Now THAT is a more tricky question! If not for the word OFF — for example replace that with, say, LESS — I think I’m inclined to support SATAY. But now both the SATAY and TARTS are imperfect in my opinion. So I am sitting on the fence!

  67. ckoh,

    According to dictionary.com, off(verb) means

    1) verb(used without object)
    – to go off or away; leave (used) imperatively): Off, and don’t come back!

    2) verb(used with object)
    – slang. to kill; slay.

    Base on this, I think
    – off the chaotic main
    – means to kill, slay the chaotic main from the pause

    I think it is fair.

    What say you?

  68. MAIN PLAY – 3!
    TQVM to all who are trying hard to main along with me!

    This debate is very interesting indeed and is worthwhile, even just academically, to pursue until everyone is penat or someone is tepat – whichever comes first.

    Even if you did not intend it, it does not mean that it is not acceptable.

    Manglish is never to be introduced. It has no place in treasure hunts let alone in the society.

    Someone is going to do it, why not you?

  69. Oh I forgot to comment on ‘SO WHO GETS THE POINTS?’, claire.

    My answer is, only the CoC will have the final say. Why? Because he or she is still the most logical person to judge the situation. I think it is a bad idea to allow any of the participants to dictate who should get the points. That’s why in any hunt, it is made clear from the very beginning that the CoC has the final say. Of course the CoC may want to listen and then consider the views of all the participants. But in the end, the decision rests on him.

    I am not saying that the CoC will arrive at the most amicable conclusion, mind! He may not! And if he failed to come to the ‘best’ solution, then that goes to his reputation. He may even get the boycott from the hunters for his future hunts. That’s why some CoCs are very careful to protect their reputation. Once damaged, it would be very, very difficult to remedy. Ask Wengsiu; he still remembers his bad experience of a 2005 hunt and amazingly he also remembers the cellphone numbers of the CoC!

  70. Yes, ckloh, I did check the dictionary too. And indeed I got those same meanings therefrom. Let us look at the ordinary meaning of the word and see its ordinary usage.

    It means we are reducing the retail price by 20%. Or in other words, we’re taking away 20% from the retail price. To me it doesn’t really matter if I inserted a comma after the word OFF.

    20% OFF, THE RETAIL PRICE. The meaning is still the same, but for the wrong punctuation perhaps. Neither does it make much difference if the comma comes before the OFF.

    20%, OFF THE RETAIL PRICE. In this case, what you’re trying to say: it is that retail price that is taken away from the 20%. But if you meant it this way, my contention is that the word OFF can’t stand alone. As an English sentence it is not correct. Maybe it would be better if, say:

    20%, TAKE OFF the ??? from it.

    By just simply saying OFF THE ??? to mean TAKE AWAY THE ??? doesn’t sound correct to me. It is in that sense that I disagree with you.

  71. last try to cajole Master Liong to join us in open talk!

    To the June 2007 Winner, the Killer Riddle Champione!
    Speech, please!

    Yup, if someone is going to do it, why not you? I like that saying very much. And also this saying “Some things are not what they seem, until you know them better”. Something like that…

    But ah…what is not accepted now, doesn’t mean it is not good in the future. Setting a question in the “Main” style also prompts us to utilize our grey matters. The biggest challenge for any Coc to take that brave step to set this type of question…will be to seduce hunters to accept this new concept. It gives new perspectives to a question, example using the word ‘main’, one would think of ‘primary’, ‘sea’, etc…and now…even play!

    Change management. Always the hardest part.

    But I’m game!

  73. Oh well, looks like the Master is adopting the ‘SILENCE IS GOLDEN’ policy, ce5nt… hehehehe.

    Oh I am so sad that my streamyx is down at home, and I have to make my move now!

    ckloh, would it be too much for you to SMS the next Q to me at 7pm? This obsession is getting to be ridiculous, huh? Why did I ask you to take away my points for NASI KANDAR?… hehehehe… nah.. just kidding. I’m much happier with where I am right now.

    Well, see you on Monday, folks!


    Then it will mean “drop it” but notice it needs a conjunction “with”. You cannot say “OFF IT” to mean the same thing.

    This was what I was also highlighting(pun intended).
    We make the common mistakes of “Off the lights please”, “Please ON the lights”.. and take them as normal – thus the Malaysian way. OFF needs a verb+subject agreement or a conjuction.

    To maintain your original intention, the Q needed “With” to be grammatically correct and still remain deceptive. With “with” – one now wonders if you need to ADD words to it!

    “Pause off with the chaotic main Railway Terminal…”

  75. Yeah, ckoh I will send the Q to you at 7pm. You are the no.1 fans of Riddlist Column, I still surprised you send an SMS to me yesterday, asking me what is the answer, you are dying for the answer at 7pm.

    But one condition, I can SMS you the question maybe at 7.15pm after I do the necessaries, but can’t accept the answer via SMS. Not fair ma. Imagine, if 10 people send the answer via SMS, then I have problem to see which come first. And some SMS really come later, even you send first.

    So, to make our life simpler, we just check the mail server. And we trust gmail.

  76. ce5nt, thank you for your 5 cents.

  77. I’m humbled by some of you calling me Master.
    Just like all of you, I’m just someone who enjoys solving cryptic crosswords & hunt questions.
    A passion that I pick up more than 10 years ago!

    When solving Killer Riddle 5, SATAY & TART (or TARTS) did come into my mind. In fact, I solved it as TARTS first (PAUSE OFF=START & anag START).

    But I realise that TARTS can’t be the perfect answer, for a simple reason:-

    TARTS (plural) can’t fit in, coz we are looking for THIS (singular) snack; or else the Q-setter would have said THESE snacks.

    I must give credit to the Q-setter for being grammatically consistent in Q&A & attention to detail.
    Sadly not all COCs observe that rule!

    This makes me realise that the answer must be something singular; but if I take TART, it won’t fit with START anag.

    Then I decide to try SATAY (which can be used as singular); which I notice that Y is Railway Terminal. Of course, the toughest part is to get from PAUSE to PU to SATA.

    That’s all I have to say, on how I solved it!

  78. ce5nt,

    Thanks for your good wishes, we’ll need them :))). Not too sure about the “new-found sharpness”, but the beautifully-crafted (merciless) Q’s in the bloggers’ hunt really opened our eyes to great new stuff. If we are podium finishers, you can claim a treat (satay, tarts, roti bakar, whatever).


    Welcome to the blog. Looking forward to solving yr Q’s in Gurney Plaza.

  79. cmliong,

    Both Joshua and myself also will be there in Gurney Plaza for your hunt.

    Welcome, cm! We encourage you to blog more often as the Northern Hunters are a well respected group! And I believe most are groomed by your dedication towards them! Your thoughts shared, will help shape the future of treasure hunting in Malaysia!

  81. ce5nt,

    Commenter: noun. A person who leaves remarks in the ‘comments’ section.

    Blogger: noun. A person who owns or writes for a weblog.

  82. Hi, split hairs,

    Had a BAD HAIR DAY, is it?

    Sorry that my misuse, intentional or otherwise, of those words CURLED YOUR HAIR. Wasn’t my intention to make your HAIR STAND ON ENDS either.

    I wouldn’t LOSE MY HAIR over it nor pretend to hide my feelings about your HAIR SPLITTING comments with A WIG.

    At least it brought one more out of the 90% into the open – haven not seen the HIDE NOR HAIR OF YOU before!

    Or maybe I had missed one by a HAIR’S BREADTH somewhere in the blog?

    Not to worry, it will not be a HAIR-RAISING experience for me – I will never need a HAIR OF THE DOG to get over it – especially constructive ones like these! It will take a lot more to get me down and out.

    But as with all my friends (including those in this blog) – I will try not to get INTO YOUR HAIR and watch how I use them too!

    Hope I have not said anything that is not pleasant or make you not KEEP YOUR HAIR ON!

    Carry on blogging, split hairs!

  83. oops! “carry on commenting” – you know what i mean!

  84. Hello folks!… am so happy that my streamyx is up and running again! Had to call up some close friends to deal with the problem.

    If you don’t already know it, folks, never ever believe those guys at (toll free: 100) when they say they’re checking out your streamyx problem within 24 hours. They won’t! They’ll tell you the normal trouble-shooting procedure: switch off everything, connect the phone line direct, wait 15 minutes, then switch on again….

    Anyway, I’m glad we’ve managed to lure out Master Liong. And I can immediately appreciate his wisdom in the solution. Indeed ‘TARTS’ fails on grammatical grounds. How meticulous! My congratulations to you, Master!

  85. You know, split hairs, did you realise that the internet language is a very fast growing one. Personally, I’m not really bothered that I’m quickly left behind on my ‘internet vocabulary’. I think it has a lot to do with the Americans who’re of course very prone to invent new words almost on a daily basis! You get DUDE, CYBER (short for having online sex), and the likes.

    I believe it has a lot to do with the inclination to simplify the words — so much so at the expense of destroying the beautiful language. They come up with words like FUGLY. I asked the chatter to explain, and he said the meaning is simple: FUGLY means F***ING UGLY!

    You’ll also notice that a simple innocent word like CUM has a ‘dirty’ meaning in the chat-rooms. Of course the meaning for CUM in the dictionary is ‘AS WELL AS’. For example, we’d say BEDROOM CUM STUDY, or SHOP CUM OFFICE BUILDING.

    Right now, I’m not so sure about the exact meaning of BLOG. What is it? Is it a verb? Is it a noun? Well, I think it doesn’t really matter. Even if it was originally intended to be a noun, when enough people use it as a verb, it will soon become a verb!

    And so, we are all going to continue BLOGGING. All together now: WE ARE BLOGGING!!!

  86. wow..havent check for a couple of days and the comments numbered 86. you ppl are really really active.
    my 2 cents on this “Main Play” since ce5nt seems to have more to say….hahaha
    I am not in agreement to use bilingual in a question but am acceptable to an answer having both. My reason is simple, all questions should be what I call “fair” to the solver.
    Yes, you could be deceiving but not to the extend to use a BM word like “main” in an English sentence which meant ‘main’ as in important etc and not as “play”.

    As for the killer riddle, i agree that you can’t just use ‘off’ as a stand alone to mean take off something. From the question, however you want to read it (ie putting comma at wherever), just doesnt tell you to take out ase from pause. It definitely sounded the reverse as in take pause from ase and that’s just not possible.

    Therefore, i just think the question needed much more touching up to be considered fair to the solvers.

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