August 2007 – General Discussion

August 1, 2007

For general discussion please, POST IT HERE!



Item 1 – PHILIPS 21″ COLOR TV Model : 21PT2325
From: ce5nt
Email Contact: ce5nt@yahoo.com
Expiry Date (if any): Warranty – Not registered Yet
Further descriptions: Still inside box – not unpacked.
Barter trade (Y/N): Y
Sale (Y/N): Y
Asking Price/Barter Value : RM350 o.n.o.
Others : None
Delivery : Not including delivery. Ex-Subang Jaya.

Item 3 – 3 Month Membership of Celebrity Fitness Worth RM 800
From: ckloh
Email Contact: lohcheekwan@gmail.com
Expiry Date (if any): 30th November 2007 latest to redeem
Further descriptions: Centre in 1 Utama, Gurney Plaza, Subang Parade, Bangsar Village Shopping Centre
Barter trade (Y/N): Y
Sale (Y/N): Y
Asking Price/Barter Value : Just contact me and quote me a reasonable prize
Others : Free 1 Locker and 1 Towel for each visit
Delivery : Can be arranged.

Item 4 – Description
Email Contact:
Expiry Date (if any):
Further descriptions:
Barter trade (Y/N):
Sale (Y/N):
Asking Price/Barter Value :
Others :
Delivery :


Item 2 – Book “How to Solve Cryptic Crosswords” by Kevin Skinner ISBN 0-7160-2013-0 (Right Way)- 1993
Email Contact: ce5nt@yahoo.com
Expiry Date (if any): None
Further descriptions: Yellowish pages – otherwise unread. Bought it in England!
Barter trade (Y/N):Y
Sale (Y/N):Y
Asking Price/Barter Value : RM18.00
Others: I have two copies of same book! Can look it up in Amazon.com (the cover is not the same, but the contents, date of publication are exactly the same).
Delivery : Can Pos Laju. Just add cost!


  1. It would be nice if we could have a calendar of forthcoming Hunts for easy reference and maybe for people to ‘hunt’ for team members when they don’t have enough for a team. That possible?


  2. Pink, great idea!

    I will update all the hunt calendars for the month of August plus first two weeks of September to The Hunt column.

    In this column, all of us can update our weekend hunt experience.

    In this column too, hunters that need to form a team can advertise themselves. To have better effect, I would suggest the hunters should disclose info like the particular hunts interested, gender, hunt experience, whether comfortable to drive, whether comfortable to navigate and email contacts. I would suggest hunters go for a particular hunts basis first, before thinking of forming a permanent team.

    RR will not do any follow up, just provide a space for the hunters to advertise themselves to get a team, and for team to recruit suitable members for a particular hunts.

    Hopefully, this column will enable more eager hunters to get a team, and more team to recruit members/last minute replacement.

  3. CHEAP & GOOD!
    Ditto your idea, pink!
    Start a page for prize-wares to be traded too – sale or barter! This blog can then be recognised as the most complete blog for real treasure hunters.

  4. As usual, another excellent idea from ce5nt.

    Currently, I use this page for doing the prize-wares for sale or barter. Just fill in the necessary info and post it here, we will help to edit it to the bulletin.

    If the reception is good, we might need to create a dedicated page for this.

    So, ce5nt, I expect you have alot of items to be traded!!

    Gathering the details… thanks CK!

  6. Over a week ago, 2R1I posted an interesting question and answer from an actual hunt. He said his team was defeated by that question. The reason he gave the answer together with the question was because the only way to solve the question was to know the answer first (yes, some treasure hunt questions are like that). It went like this:

    Q) 2140
    A) Salun Rambut MINX

    The challenge was to figure what was the explanation for that answer. He gave about a week for us bloggers to think about it.

    After that I’ve been in contact (through email) with 2R1I and had a short discussion about that question. To be quite honest, I failed to find the explanation. 2R1I was kind enough to explain. Then I went outstation for a couple of days, and now I am back again.

    Although I will reduce my comments here from now on, I thought for the benefit of the bloggers, it is worth while to share the explanation to the question, and my own thoughts on it.

    According to 2R1I, the explanation was like this:

    MINX = 1000 in 10 (converted from roman numerals)

    Now the ‘1000’ is inserted (literally) into the ’10’ like this:

    1-1000-0 thus becoming 110000

    And then the digits are counted separately, so that we actually get 2 ONES, 4 ZEROES, i.e 2140. That was how the CoC explained the connection with the question, 2140.

    At first glance , this was such an interesting idea! But (and I am not saying this because I’ve failed to solve the question!) upon close scrutiny, the explanation can’t hold water! Let’s see how…

    Looking at 110000, indeed there are 2 ONES and 4 ZEROES, but it can only be (grammatically) correct with the esses (s) there. By giving 2140, it is like saying: 2 ONE, 4 ZERO, which is grammatically wrong, because obviously those ONE and ZERO should be in plural forms. Maybe if the question was set as ’21s40s’, then it is grammatically correct.

  7. 2 1’S 4 0’S!
    What does it mean when the question was actually solved by 2 teams?

  8. Well, it can mean a few things. These are the possibilities:

    1) Out of the many teams hunting that day, those two teams picked the right tembak. Which means the question was NOT solved.

    2) They saw the explanation and realised that the answer was defective. However because of no better alternative, they were forced to pick a defective answer anyway.

    3) These two teams were brilliant to have thought of the answers exactly according to the CoC’s explanation. They couldn’t be bothered with the significance of grammatical requirement in the language!

    4) The CoC was lucky enough that there were no other boards with, say, “TIME” or “Closed at 9:40 pm”.

    5) The COC and the 2 teams were thinking in BM.

  10. That is very clever, ce5nt. Would have been interesting if the CoC would have accepted 9:40pm if it’s found in that sector.

    We did look for 9:40 p.m. too! We found TIME … but it was accompanied by TEA (Bistro TEA TIME).

  12. And another thing I’d like to add. Normally, when we give something that is to be construed in a way out of the ordinary, then a question mark (?) is used (though some COCs may not agree).

    Q)Sabahan Flower?
    A)Sungai Padas

    Flower in its ordinary meaning means ‘bunga’, of course. There is just no way that a flower can mean river. But here, in a ‘riddle’ kind of approach, the setter means to say that we’re looking for something that flows…. hence ‘flower’.

    Q)500 ahead to be delighted?
    A)The Ark @ Retirement Kampung

    Delighted in its ordinary meaning means being very pleased and happy with something. But here the setter means it in a tricky way to mean the light has been switched off.

  13. First we ask ourselves, does BISTRO TEA TIME fit the clue? After all, 2140 can indeed be referring to TIME, i.e. 9:40pm.

    I suppose the CoC can argue that although 2140 can most certainly be referring to TIME as in 9:40pm, there is nothing to connect the question to BISTRO TEA, which was also contained within the name on the sign board. Therefore, the CoC can say that it’s not a perfect fit.

    Similarly, based on the explanation above, and adopting the Malay language of interpreting it, the ‘2140’ can also be referring to ‘MINX’ in an awkward approach. In such a way, I guess ‘2140’ can equal to ‘MINX’. However is it a perfect fit? After all, the board also contained SALUN RAMBUT?

  14. We have categorised 5 pages under category August 2007 for easy view. Please post the right remarks to the right pages. Please fully utilise the category option on the right panel in order for easy search.

    Please suggest/give opinions on the new look/new format.

    Suggestion for the room for improvement are welcomed to.

    Thank you.

    1. It is about solving riddles and puzzles (thus HUNT)
    2. Most of us read this blog in the evening (so under the MOON!) — just kidding — no such phrase anyway. Under The Sun is fine, but need to tie to solving riddles.

    Sorry for messing up your blog with our inconsiderate placements of comments – but since ckoh started it, I was forced to continue!

    2140 and 110000 are both numerals which can be read in BM or English or for that matter in many common languages. So, was it an English question or a BM question? In either case, the COC has always said at briefings “Your answers can be in BM or English!”

  17. It is our inconsideration also previously that we do not create a space where you all can freely give comments. So, we create a general discussion page every month. You can post anything, just anything in this general discussion page.

    But for future interesting riddles like 2140 and others, maybe you all can post it to our mails, so that we can post it on Friday.

    ce5nt, admire your creativity. Please suggest a good name to replace ANYTHING UNDER THE SUN. Agree this is not a good name.

    This column is basically about other riddles like the Encore II, or any themes riddles initiated by anyone of us, or even some knowledge riddles to be shared like entertainment knowledge clues.

    And this column can go as far as non-riddles like if pink want to share the bombastic Scrabble words, or French words, or maybe gerald cai share some of the chinese hunts words/experience, or just anything that we can think of, not under virtual hunt and treasure riddle and you feel like want us to post it.

    And ce5nt, you are the man behind a separate column for Treasure Riddle, so I expect at least 1 or 2 Treasure Riddle from you very soon. OK? Don’t dissapoint us here. Of course, if possible, add some Virtual Hunt riddles as well.

    And where is 2R1I?

  18. Item 1 – PHILIPS 21″ COLOR TV Model : 21PT2325
    From: ce5nt
    Email Contact: ce5nt@yahoo.com
    Expiry Date (if any): Warranty – Not registered Yet
    Other Remarks: Still inside box – not unpacked.
    Barter trade (Y/N): Y
    Sale (Y/N): Y
    Asking Price/Barter Value : RM350 o.n.o.
    Others : Not including delivery. Ex-Subang Jaya.

  19. Item 2 – Book “How to Solve Cryptic Crosswords” by Kevin Skinner ISBN 0-7160-2013-0 (Right Way)- 1993
    Email Contact: ce5nt@yahoo.com
    Expiry Date (if any): None
    Other Remarks: Yellowish pages – otherwise unread.
    Bought it in England!
    Barter trade (Y/N):Y
    Sale (Y/N):Y
    Asking Price/Barter Value : RM18.00
    Others: I have two copies of same book! Can look it up in Amazon.com (the cover is not the same, but the contents, date of publication are exactly the same).
    Delivery : Can Pos Laju. Just add cost!
    (ckloh : this is not a prize-ware but i thought it is relevant to the theme of this blog! You can remove if it is not want you wish to promote!)

    He is well but extremely busy (like I was the last week) … please pardon his absence. I am sure he has a few things to update/say but just can’t get down to doing it yet.

    “RIDDLES FROM RR’S GUESTS!” may just describe this column.

    Yes, I did ask for it. Will contribute a couple soon.

  21. If I remember correctly, there was a hunt where the question was ‘110000’ and the answer was ‘MINX’.
    (think I was with AD in that hunt).

    2140 = 110000 ??
    Would it mean that 2124 = 1144, 2114 = 114, 21=11 ???

  22. So, it is past year question.

    Previously, 110000 = MINX.

    A slighly new version,
    = Dua Satu Empat Kosong
    = 11 0000
    = MINX

  23. It seems that is the what the CoC is getting at, renroc. A very strange and liberal way of ‘reading’ a string of numbers. And according to ce5nt the ‘reading’ is done in Malay, which I can accept.

    But last night I also asked, if those numbers can be ‘read’ with so much flexibility, then what is there to stop the solver to answer BISTRO TEA TIME. 2140 can be referring to TIME, as in 9:40pm. And to some people, 9:40 pm is indeed a tea time as well!

  24. ce5nt said they found TIME…. “but it was accompanied by TEA (Bistro TEA TIME).” I take it to mean that if those words, BISTRO TEA were not there, perhaps ce5nt would consider the TIME as (at least) an equally-acceptable answer to “2140”.

    My query was that, the word MINX did not stand alone too. It came together with SALUN RAMBUT. There was nothing in the “2140” that pointed to SALUN RAMBUT; neither did it point to BISTRO TEA. So which one’s a better fit?

  25. Wasn’t in the ‘2140’ hunt, but still believe that it’s too far fetched. It could have been solved by some teams, but it created too many loopholes – countless unequal numbers would become equal.

    Besides, ‘2140’ is no better than ‘TIME @ Bistro Tea Time’ or even just ‘Bistro Tea Time’ (whoever doesn’t believe you can go to a ‘mamak’ outlet at 2140 tonite ! 🙂 )

  26. Oops,

    ‘you’ in my last sentence should read ‘ckoh’

  27. We are in agreement then, renroc! I wasn’t in the ‘2140’ hunt either.

    The CoC read ‘110000’ as DUA SATU, EMPAT KOSONG

    I will read ‘110000’ as DUA SATU, DUA KOSONG, DUA KOSONG.

    Maybe others will read it as DUA SATU, SATU KOSONG, TIGA KOSONG.

    Yet others will read it as Bistro Tea Time…

  28. Hi…does anyone know about the Malaysian Hunt Club which is managed FG Network Consultancy (M) Sdn Bhd?
    Anyone joined a hunt by them before? I read that they have more than 10 years of organizing hunts.

    Received an invitation to join a closed hunt with the Malaysian Hunt Club as the Hunt Marshals. Thinking of giving it a try…

  29. claire dear, we had the Toyota Amazing Trail 2007 a couple of months ago in KK clerked by the Malaysian Hunt Club. In paticular, the CoC was a nice man named Baskaran.

    My PERSONAL opinion about their questions as follows:

    1) Not very specific/accurate;

    2) Lots of ‘useless’ words within the clues. Sometimes the clue is few sentences long, although the answer is solvable within one of them. The rest are there to take up space only;

    3) Be warned! quite a number of times those addicted to solve riddles may get themselve in trouble because some clues are to be taken literally! Therefore, claire dear, ‘perhaps’ does not often mean anagram;

    4) About 50% of the questions are in Malay;

    5) Hunt is anybody’s game!

  30. What?! ‘Perhaps’ doesn’t mean anagram? In that case I’m in trouble…All these Killer Riddles and Blogger questions have tuned me head to think too complicatedly at times.

    Thanks for the insights my dear ckoh… Entry fee is too expensive…now finding out about the prizes to see if it’s worth it or no!

    Cryptic book is sold! Waiting for some details of other items from team members to post here.

  32. Oh shoot… I’m a step too late in getting my hands on ce5nt’s cryptic book…

  33. Ok, I ask again. Can I know is the break off/new format now better? Is it more structured on the discussion?

    Room for improvement? Thanks.

    We discussed this briefing amongst us during the MO hunt. Some of us felt that there are too many columns now.

    Maybe the RR’s Quests can be dispensed with.
    The two Virtuals (treasure and Hunt) could be merged.

    That will reduce the number of columns by 2.

    General Discussion can remain.

    Calendar can remain – but I would encourage discussions about any of the hunts (past, present or future) to be done under this column.

    Then let’s see how it goes.

    The main “complain” was unable to determine where to comment or which column has new comments. I think only the full paid version of WordPress will allow that.

  35. Yeah, there are too many threads available. I find it too difficult to follow all the comments. I suggest the threads should be open for a certain period and archived after the deadline. So the readers can just follow 1 or max 2 threads for postings.

  36. Oops! I thought initial complain is saying there are too few threads, as all the general discussion, hunt discussion and cryptic clue discussion jumble around. In fact, has received request to create a thread for treasure alone.

    And I also have request to create a good idea column, a wares column and etc.

    So, now need to back to square one?

    How about maintaining 3 column per months as mentioned by ce5nt?

    1) General DIscussion
    – self describe and also to voice your intention to sell/barter the goods won in hunts.

    2) Hunt Discussion
    – current, pass and future hunt discussion, find for hunt partners, ask for hunt experience

    3) Virtual Treasure Hunt
    – cryptic clues discussion for both virtual hunt and virtual treasure

    So, by doing this, users can
    1) segregate general, hunt and cryptic clues discussion
    2) easier to search back the comments, especially the cryptic solving description, imagine you need to get back the explanation of the clues and all discussion in one thread

    RR will add in our columns too, but for discussion purpose, just go to the categories and click the months and only this 3 columns will appear for the particular month.

    I am thinking of adding another one to make it four, which is cryptic crossword discussion for Sunday Star. So, users can have a discussion on the Sunday Star clues, supposed a popular attraction for all hunters. But the answers won’t be in the column. To view the answers the user need to login to riddlecrossword@gmail.com to view the answers that have sent by the users from this column.

    So, some sort like a discussion forum for sunday star crossword puzzles, and also some sort of competition, who break the clues first and send to the email.

    We would like to listen to general view first before implementing yet another column. I know there are few of us here solved Sunday crossword, so thought of why not we discuss about the difficult one here since we are very into this cryptic clues.

    And having 3 to 4 columns for one month should not be too burden to the user, I hope! Previously we have 4 to 5 per months, every week 1 column.

    Ok, lets hear from more views first, before we implement it this time.

    It may be possible to merge these two threads.
    Because this thread is generally about “What’s New?” and that could include new opinions, new ideas, new observations, new subjects. But such comments can become “old” very quickly.

    2R1I’s suggestion to archive dated threads is also a good approach – but the challenge will be determining the “cut-off” for any thread.

  38. ckloh:
    You have tried a few options. Maybe try a SINGLE THREAD – just one – nothing else… see what happens?

    E.g.just ONE FOR ALL GUESTS OF RR, and RR can have their own thread or threads. You can begin from September, Archive all the rest and just start ONE!

    I am sure with the experimentation, you will discover what is ideal.

  39. josh:
    I have been reading a bit, and I still see wordpress as the most recommended host for blogs. I am sure they are referring to the “paid” version. Found any other sites? Just curious.

  40. OK.

    Start from September

    Sugestion A
    1) General/Hunt Discussion
    2) Virtual Treasure Hunt

    Sugestion B
    1) RR’s Guest
    (General/Hunt Discussion/Virtual Treasure Hunt)

    So, Suggestion A or B? Will do it starting September. Hope to listen more views.


    “A1” can be the CHATROOM.
    “A2” can be the PLAYROOM.

  42. And now Kim Hock get’s the blame!?… Lost because failed under pressure?… Is Chong Wei saying his opponent wasn’t under pressure too?…

    Well, it does say “General Discussion” as the title of this thread?… hehehehe…

    Nah…just kidding, guys. Taking a break (nothing to do with KIT KAT!) from setting questions. OK, I’m outta here!

  43. josh:
    If there is feature which can show the “LATEST POST” for each thread in the main page – then it will be helpful too.

    With this, we can quickly see if we have already read all the comments in that thread.

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